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Onyx 12.1 Rip

altereddezignz

New Member
When i send a file to rip but open in in job editor i want to change a color. Now there is a specific orange that i printed a swatch chart out on and it includes orange from my printer ink. Now i cannot create this color in illustrator b/c i am unable to input a value for the orange. My design has a shadow that is in part of the area that has orange in it. When i click to select the color i need to change it does not change the color that has shadow in it so it will not allow me to change all of the color to the correct orange.

Any ideas? i can post an example if needed.
 

Modern Ink Signs

Premium Subscriber
Is your art vector or raster? Is the shadow a solid shape or an effect?

I assume you are using the color replacement tool in Onyx.

Post a pic and we can see what you have going on
 

altereddezignz

New Member
I have attached 3 images. One is the file created in illustrator. I used the effects, stylize, drop shadow. Saved file as an EPS then opened in Onyx job editor.

As you can see from the next image that it created a square in a different shade yellow around the text and the rest of the circle is another shade of yellow. When i co to do a color replacement you can see from the next image that it only selects a specific area.

If i take the same exact file in illustrator but remove the drop shadow i get non of these issues.
 

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altereddezignz

New Member
I have tried creating the original file with a pantone and or an cmyk mix with no luck. If it has a shadow in it i have this issue.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
That's probably because you have a shadow in it. The RIP will see it as a different colour value because it has more black in it from the file. Onyx does not see the shadow as an actual shadow layer.. It will just see it as a CMYK value (not the same cmyk value from illustrator but the cmyk value from the output profile in onyx)
You should be making that type of change in illustrator. If your screen doesn't match your printer prints. Then you need to calibrate your screen, and/or calibrate the printer and media.
Also saving things as an EPS doesn't help. Should be saving it as a PDF/X-4 so it preserves all ICC profiles and layers. Still probably won't help you with what you're doing
 

altereddezignz

New Member
I did it as an EPS as a trial, I have also saved it as an PDF as well as a PSD. The file was created all in Illustrator photoshop was not involved. The shadow is the reason it is seeing the color differently i was just trying to determine if there was a way around this as i have files that need a specific color printed that i cannot hit unless i am able to process the color change in rip.

My screens are calibrated and profiled to match my printer.
The issue is the color i need to use is
c-1.2
m-4.3
y-84.3
k-0
o-83.9
r-0

To bad we are not allowed to do multi colors in adobe software as the printer sees it. Would be so much easier.
Hope this makes more sense.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
Just to make sure i checked it by saving it as the PDF/X-4 but still will not allow me to do a color correction to the correct color.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Have you tried installing the ICC profile to the system and using that as the document profile?
So finding the profile, double clicking it so it installs to the system. Then going photoshop - edit - covert to profile and select your printer profile.

Also if you're doing it in illustrator, try changing the document to RGB. better chance of hitting the colour as the CMYK in illustrator is pretty limited.
illustrator uses U.S Web coated SWOP. which is pretty small compared to most printers.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
It is a spot color with a transparency issue. Same as if you made the orange a Pantone spot color and put the drop shadow over it.
When you do "spot color replacement" in the RIP it is choosing a particular color and kind of making it a spot color, then replacing it; so where it is affected by the transparency (drop shadow) it will not be replaced.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
Have you tried installing the ICC profile to the system and using that as the document profile?
So finding the profile, double clicking it so it installs to the system. Then going photoshop - edit - covert to profile and select your printer profile.

Also if you're doing it in illustrator, try changing the document to RGB. better chance of hitting the colour as the CMYK in illustrator is pretty limited.
illustrator uses U.S Web coated SWOP. which is pretty small compared to most printers.

Yes the icc profile is installed as we have a very intricate color workflow process.
All files are created in RGB unless we need to do them in CMYK for a particular reason.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
It is a spot color with a transparency issue. Same as if you made the orange a Pantone spot color and put the drop shadow over it.
When you do "spot color replacement" in the RIP it is choosing a particular color and kind of making it a spot color, then replacing it; so where it is affected by the transparency (drop shadow) it will not be replaced.

Same issue weather it is a spot color or just a simple cmyk or rgb mix. I mean i understand why it is doing it. The rip is flattening the file into an image or illustrator is flattening the image before it is saved. This then results in the area that has the shadow showing a different color of orange since it has a black over it. I am just looking for a way to hopefully modify this process to allow the rip to possibly see the shadow and the orange and completely different layers or colors all together to allow me to modify or replace the color weather it be a rgb/cmyk mix or a spot color.

I am not just trying it as a spot color replacement but also as a simple color replacement.

If adobe would just allow me to input my colors for c,m,y,k,o,r i would be golden lol.. I dont see that happening tho..
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
I believe your profile is inaccurate. But that's fine, there's ways around it. (lets hope your profile gamut isn't limited before the colour you're trying to create as sometimes when creating a profile, you can do some things wrong and the colour gamut will be smaller than what the printer can really do)

You'll need to do your colour management though illustrator, not onyx (the way you're trying to do it, even though that's the right way)
If you know onyx is printing the colour lighter (or darker). Go into illustrator, create a patch with the current yellow you're using. Then create patches darker (or lighter) than the yellow. This will be all guess work. And hope it comes close to what your need it to be.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible with Onyx. I had a similar situation come up recently where a customer wanted an "oranger/brighter" orange than I was capable of printing, even though our printer also has orange ink.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
This would be easy if there was no shadow or even a transparency. Crazy to think you pay this much for software and its lacking in its abilities to change colors.

Thanks everyone for all the help!!!
 

altereddezignz

New Member
I believe your profile is inaccurate. But that's fine, there's ways around it. (lets hope your profile gamut isn't limited before the colour you're trying to create as sometimes when creating a profile, you can do some things wrong and the colour gamut will be smaller than what the printer can really do)

You'll need to do your colour management though illustrator, not onyx (the way you're trying to do it, even though that's the right way)
If you know onyx is printing the colour lighter (or darker). Go into illustrator, create a patch with the current yellow you're using. Then create patches darker (or lighter) than the yellow. This will be all guess work. And hope it comes close to what your need it to be.

I missed this earlier. Are colors are as close as you can possibly get to true accurate colors lol. We have invested in a lot of equipment along with thousands in training and have been color certified along with our colors certified by the 14 college collegiate licenses we have to be dead on for its a nightmare in the end.

I am not having an issue with the color persay. I cannot hit the color out of illustrator as it consists of a specific mixture of orange that illustrator will not allow me to achieve.
In this situation i am able to get close enough out of illustrator for it to be ok but the problem i was having was simply trying to find a solution to the color change in onyx when using a shadow or a transparency not about printing a specific color.

Hope this made more since. The orange i need to use is a color that i created a while back when using printed swatches out of onyx. I have the mixture set aside to do a color change in onyx and i have done it a few times but on this particular print i would like to use that orange but it has a shadow in the image.

I was able to get a close orange that the customer is ok with im just simply trying to figure out how to do a color change in onyx with a shadow.

I think i repeated myself sorry.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
I missed this earlier. Are colors are as close as you can possibly get to true accurate colors lol. We have invested in a lot of equipment along with thousands in training and have been color certified along with our colors certified by the 14 college collegiate licenses we have to be dead on for its a nightmare in the end.

I am not having an issue with the color persay. I cannot hit the color out of illustrator as it consists of a specific mixture of orange that illustrator will not allow me to achieve.
In this situation i am able to get close enough out of illustrator for it to be ok but the problem i was having was simply trying to find a solution to the color change in onyx when using a shadow or a transparency not about printing a specific color.

Hope this made more since. The orange i need to use is a color that i created a while back when using printed swatches out of onyx. I have the mixture set aside to do a color change in onyx and i have done it a few times but on this particular print i would like to use that orange but it has a shadow in the image.

I was able to get a close orange that the customer is ok with im just simply trying to figure out how to do a color change in onyx with a shadow.

I think i repeated myself sorry.
Can you send me that ICC profile? I'd like to try something with it in illustrator and photoshop cc
 

altereddezignz

New Member
Can you send me that ICC profile? I'd like to try something with it in illustrator and photoshop cc

I can but the icc profile is inside an .oml file. Thats how onyx works. Will this work for you? If so PM me your email address and ill send you one.
 

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
On a side note, I've often wondered if the ICC can be pulled out of an OML. I'd like to compare some of my generated profiles to the canned ones.
 

altereddezignz

New Member
I know when using Flexi the oml file can be downloaded and flexi will pull the icc profile out of the oml. I no longer use flexi b/c of the issues it has creating profiles with the s80600
 
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