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3165ra Failing

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by klingsdesigns, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    Apr 16, 2012
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    We have been using 3165ra for small decals to contour cut vinyl for vehicles. We have been noticing it failing more and more. And I noticed it is not recommended for vehicles. What is another good option of orajet out there that i can still do some detailed cutting for smaller decals and also bigger jobs for vehicles. We use ij10cv310 for wraps.
     
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  2. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    According to this page, Oracal recommends these for vehicles:
    ORALITE® 5600 Fleet Engineer Grade
    ORALITE® 5650RA Fleet Engineer Grade
    ORAJET® 3169RA
    ORAJET® 3551
    ORAJET® 3551RA
    ORAJET® 3551DT
    ORAJET® 3675 Window Graphics Film
    ORAJET® 3751RA
    ORAJET® 3951
    ORAJET® 3951RA
    ORAJET® 3981RA Premium Eco Digital Print

    But... if you're already using 3M for wraps- why not use it for other vehicle graphics? While I do understand that 3M is usually the more expensive brand, you shouldn't have the failures- and you won't have to stock multiple rolls.
     
  3. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    Only issue i have with the 3m is when your trying to cut smaller decals out of it and more detailed the cutting is not perfect. Usually have to go through and finish the cuts with an exacto knife.
     
  4. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    Are you talking print/cut, or just cut graphics?
    Much of the print media with air release can be tricky for cutting smaller items- especially when laminate is added. I solve that by always having an extra plotter blade/assembly that's used only for small text/items. It's always the newest, sharpest blade.
    If it's just cut graphics, I'd just switch to HP vinyl. Oracal's 751 line would work fine for vehicle graphics.
     
  5. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    I was talking as print and cut graphics.
    I have a special blade for it and do the same with using the newer blade. Material is so stretchy that the sharp points in letters are not always great.
    Think the 3551 would be way better than the 3165ra? I noticed its calendared vinyl but that its recommended to lam with cast.
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    It only says it's not recommended for vehicle wraps. It doesn't say you cant use it on vehicles..... just not wraps.
     
  7. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    I have had 4 jobs in the last year that have failed using it so i want to find a better material.
     
  8. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    Usually the corners start to curl when i print and cut to edge.
     
  9. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    Actually, Oracal specifically says 3165 is "NOT for vehicle graphics or wraps." And, personally, I would never use calendared vinyl or print media for vehicle graphics.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    Otherwise if I switch to just using 3m and use 40C think that would stop my issues?
     
  11. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    We use 180 with either 8519 or 8520 for vehicle graphics.
    If you're using Oracal, I'd go with 3951 with 290 laminate.
    I'm not sure what 40C is?
     
  12. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    3m control tac print film 40c

    Great for partial vehicle wraps, indoor and outdoor signs, pop, walls, windows and short term indoor floor graphics. Basically what i was using the 3165ra for.

    For wraps we use 180mc with 8518.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    Oh... yeah, you'd probably be good with that one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. equippaint

    equippaint Member

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    We use 3165ra for equipment decals and company names on equipment all the time. We also use some 3551 from time to time with 215 lam which we also use on the 3165. The 3551 isn't near as tacky and is a little thinner also. We haven't seen any of our stuff with curling edges except for a couple misprints I stuck on a door but they were just slapped on. Is it possible that they are being hand applied and not being squeegeed or the surface has wax or something on it? With no lam, full bleeds do curl pretty bad too.

    I know calendered isn't recommended for vehicles in general but everyone knows in reality its used a lot for this purpose by many shops. Id assume it has more to do to the fact that it ruins paint on vehicles in time which is a potential liability for a mfg but correct me if Im wrong. 3551, which is calendered, has a removable adhesive which makes me wonder if this is the case more so than the fact its cal vs cast. When we sandblast, a lot of door lettering jobs are still visible in the steel after blasting and will show through the new paint sometimes.
     
  15. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Premium Subscriber

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    If it works for you, that's great. I was only pointing out that Oracal says it is not for vehicles.
    In my experience, calendared films always shrink faster, fade faster, and fail faster. And just because "many shops" might use calendared doesn't make it the right material- it just means that they're more concerned about saving money on material. No judgement on that front (I'm a big fan of money), but I'm just more comfortable using the material that is made for the job. Cast films- again, in my experience- will just last longer.
    Again, if the 3165 works for you- that's great. I hope you continue to have success with it, but the OP was not having the same luck- which is why I suggested the 180 or 3951 (I did not recommend the 3551 because it's calendared).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    We laminate all vinyl we print. Surface we as prepped correctly. Squeegie was used and post heat after.
     
  17. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    nope, more than one piece of literature, from various suppliers, recommends NOT using 3165 for vehicle graphics or wraps. most likely result of known issues in the past.

    anything exposed to the elements, especially those not on a perfectly flat surface, we use cast/highperformance materials: Arlon 6000XRP, 3M IJ180Cv3 or 3630/180series have been my go-to vinyls for the past decade-plus.
     
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