330 Major Color Consistency Issues

[Brands Imaging]

So I've had this 330 for 2+ years and I'm really all thumbs.
I want to put a disclaimer out there and say that we're not the shop that makes custom profiles. In fact, we usually stick to 1 profile for all vinyl, 1 or 2 for textiles and 1 for banner and thats it. We'll do the print tests and align the heads and optimize print quality tests but thats about it.
We did this (and still do) with our JV33 without issue.

From the moment we had the 330 there has always been color issues but they have fallen as fault always on different things. A few weeks ago we had print heads go bad. Some were under 1000ml fired and some were over.

The first ever issue was a firmware update bc the printer couldn't achieve rich reds. More recently (over the last year consistently) we cannot seem to print the same color consistently. First it was changing from roll to roll. Then it was changing from day to day. NOW its changing from panel to panel. Literally....I print 2 yellow panels and 1 is bright yellow and 1 is a shade closer to gold.

I've always had hardware issues with the printer and all replaced under warranty. Recently...our air pumps that keep pressure in the tubes run CONSTANTLY. Like... all the time. The tech has been out twice last week and can't narrow it down. So here's where I'm at.

I think the printer has too many variables to keep track of. Printheads, heat, curing...too much BS. The 2nd problem I think I have is flexi. We got roped into flexi bc we were already running it and it could handle both machines. The weird things was...last week, after never having a problem with my JV33 we printed 2 panels back to back and had different colors (issues). I know that's the indicator right there that its a rip issue and that you can nail it all on that but i wanted to see what everyone thought.

Thanks!

 

[Correct Color]

The weird things was...last week, after never having a problem with my JV33 we printed 2 panels back to back and had different colors (issues). I know that's the indicator right there that its a rip issue and that you can nail it all on that but i wanted to see what everyone thought.

Actually, typically that is not a RIP issue. It could be, but usually it's not. Usually it's something mechanically wrong with the printer.

The reason being that what the RIP does is convert pixels into dots, based on whatever information it's given in whatever profile you tell it to use to generate those dots. And unless you give it different information, it's going to create the same dots from one panel to the next. So, unless you had some kind of mess-up creating the two panel files, they should RIP the same. If they don't print the same, that's probably on the printer.

(Edited to add: Just to note that I'm not a huge Flexi fan. It has some real limitations and I think that some of your inconsistency issues on your HP might be Flexi-caused, but like any other RIP, it is capable of creating consistent dots with consistent input information.)

 

[Brands Imaging]

So a couple of things to note...

1 - My mimaki did the 2 different color panel things last week. Which Pointed me also at the RIP.

2 - We have had a tech out here 3 x's in the passed week from HP because of an initial ink level sensor problem. While here he noticed the ink flow pumps we're always on and barely shutting off. After replacing the pumps themselves and then the entire tube set we just got the pumps to stop constantly running.....like 5 min ago.

So my only thought about the color issue was the amount of force in the tubes constantly shifting the amount of ink that went down. The only thoughts about that are why is it systematic from panel to panel. If theres a ton of air in those tubes that I would think the levels would be all over the place, no?

My thoughts about the RIP....Flexi are that its just a really crappy program. Before we moved over to the cloud version we would have to completely remove the entire software from the computer and re install it to get a "fresh" version. Even now with the cloud version there's always a ton of glitchy-type things happening that makes me not really trust it.

 

[AKwrapguy]

This is interesting...
So you are dealing with the same problem with 2 different machines? A mimaki (solvent) and an HP latex?
What happens when you print the same file on both machines using the same rip?
Does the color change depend on the panel size?
Is it only when printing multi panel jobs?
Does it happen consistently on both machines or only the HP latex?
Are you the only one who operates and maintains the machines?

What about:
Ink type - Have you switched inks manufactures at all? Could the incorrect color of ink 'accidentally' been loaded into the wrong color?
Environmental - has the material and printer been in a consistent environment, no humidity or temperature changes?
Machine maintenance - have you changed the way you maintenance or cleaned your machines?
How are the machines's attached to the computer? Is there a cable that might be damaged or lose?

 

[Brands Imaging]

So you are dealing with the same problem with 2 different machines? A mimaki (solvent) and an HP latex
Yes but it only happened once with the solvent....it was enough to freak me out and blame flexi
What happens when you print the same file on both machines using the same rip
I wish we had the time to duplicate the problem - we're too busy but really should have taken the time to do so.
Does the color change depend on the panel size
We're only noticing it on multi panel jobs because its panel to panel - never happens throughout 1 panel. Only after the new panel prints
Is it only when printing multi panel jobs? yes
Does it happen consistently on both machines or only the HP latex?
only once on the solvent....always on the latex
Are you the only one who operates and maintains the machines?
only 2 people operate and maintain

What about:
Ink type - Have you switched inks manufactures at all? Could the incorrect color of ink 'accidentally' been loaded into the wrong color?
printers don't allow wrong ink to be inserted. All OEM inks.
Environmental - has the material and printer been in a consistent environment, no humidity or temperature changes?
same
Machine maintenance - have you changed the way you maintenance or cleaned your machines?
same
How are the machines's attached to the computer? Is there a cable that might be damaged or lose?
they are both hard wired.

 

[dypinc]

Due you have the option in Flexi to turn off the Adobe PDF Print Engine and use another interpreter like Postscript? The reason I am asking is I was a long time Fiery XF user but soon as I upgraded to version 6 I started seeing strange things happening only when using nesting and step and repeat with APPE. If I used the Postscript engine I never have a color rendering problem but of course I would have transparency flattening problems. Seams others would have reported this if that was the case but you never know.

 

[Brands Imaging]

I need to bump this thread - I'm having the same issues.. I CANNOT print the same tile back to back the same color. EVERY piece that comes out of the printer is a different color. I can print 4 blue panels and honestly, they'll all be consistent within their own panels but they'll be all 4 different blues.

 

[FrankW]

I need to bump this thread - I'm having the same issues.. I CANNOT print the same tile back to back the same color. EVERY piece that comes out of the printer is a different color. I can print 4 blue panels and honestly, they'll all be consistent within their own panels but they'll be all 4 different blues.

Regularly you don't have 4 different blues, but a colour deviation from left to right. Assembling this kind of prints will lead to the impression that every tile have a different colour, because they don't match on every side of the print.

This problem isn't only latex. So the RIP-manufacturers mostly have implemented a functionality to rotate every second panel on 180°. If activated, you will assemble a tiled print left to left and right to right side, with mostly matching colours.

Another hint: do a firmware upgrade. The newest releases of the latex 300-firmware have a colour consistency mode, which can be activated through the profile library for every single profile. After activating it, the print start take around 30 seconds longer, but after doing additional heating of the print heads before starting, the colour consistency is better. I have done measurements to confirm that, it works.