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3M vs. Oracal- calendered vinyl comparison only please

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by [email protected], Feb 2, 2012.

  1. Gene@mpls

    [email protected] Very Active Member

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    Blaine, Mn
    I use mostly calendered vinyl for our print production. I understand that
    cast is better but for the our mix of printed products we have been using
    Orajet 3165RA ( which I believe would correspond to IJ35C-10) and
    Orajet 3551RA ( which I believe would correspond to IJ40C-10R).

    We had decided to switch from Oracal to 3M as our stock ran out this year. The price is better and 3M is a US (and Minnesota) company.
    I have always used 3M/Gerber cast films for the last 16 years- 15" and 30"
    and some Arlon 24" cast which matches the Gerber colors closely.

    I am getting cold feet now that the time is upon me- I have had absolutely
    *no* problems with the Oracal- I cannot think of a failure that I can attribute to the print calendered vinyl. I get the sweats thinking about
    vinyl failure- we pretty much replace anything our customers are don't like.

    I also believe that Oracal developed the so-called Hi-performance Intermediate (calendered) vinyl market and kind of wonder if 3M is playing
    catchup.

    I have seen the thread about IJ35 failure- it does not seem so much related to the material as the wall- but I guess it planted the germ in
    my already addled brain. Thanks for any thoughts and experiences. Gene

    PS- sorry about the length of this- I don't talk much but keyboard a lot.
     
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  2. Circleville Signs

    Circleville Signs Very Active Member

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    3M IJ35-C is awesome.

    Just like any other product, you need to use it in the right applications, or you will get failures. But that is true of anything. For calendered air release, all I use is IJ35C.
     
  3. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    They're both comparable. We switched from 3165RA to IJ35C-10 for one reason: it doesn't edge curl when your print bleeds, Orajet film (all of them actually, not just 3165) tends to curl significantly with ink coverage at the cut. If you wait 48+ hours it won't, but we don't have that luxury most of the time. Switching to IJ35C eliminated it.

    That said, I like Oracal's products, love them in fact. And IMO Oracal is a far superior company, especially if you have problems with their films. They stand behind their warranty and they will be there in a second to help you if you have a problem with their products.

    So while we use IJ35C, we do so for a specific reason, and while I believe it's an excellent product, if you're happy with Oracal products stick with them.

    Oh, and if you were laminating Oracal calendered vinyls with their 210 laminate, go ahead and keep using it. 3M's calendered 8509 laminate is flat out junk. DO NOT use it. We still use 210 because we feel it's the best calendered laminate on the market.
     
  4. MindsEyeOpen

    MindsEyeOpen Member

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    Until recently I had been using Oracal products almost exclusively for just shy of a decade. I made the decision to switch our shop to 3M products for several reasons, one of the big ones being price. I can get comparable, and most times better, quality 3M material for less money than Oracal.

    I've been using 3M print materials almost exclusively for about 4 months now and couldn't be happier. We primarily used Oracal 3640 for our "day-to-day" prints and had very few issues with it aside from a couple instances of shrinking.

    I switched to IJ35C-10 as our new "daily" vinyl and the results have been great. It makes it easier on our vinyl guys with it being air release and the print quality has been excellent. We pair it with 8508 laminate and have had no issues thus far and have applied it on a wide range of substrates.
     
  5. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    Oh, on the subject of Oracal vs. 3M, Oracal's 3751RA wrap film is killer, every bit as good as, if not a good bit better than 180C and it's significantly less. Time will tell how durable it really proves to be, but after a couple months of using it we're sold on it so far.
     
  6. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    we just switched from 3165 to ij35c.

    mostly a supplier change but, we will see. ive used it before. not as agressive of a tac as the 3165 which i like.

    as mentioned above DO NOT USE 3m's corrosponding lam. its a 1 year product that i doubt would last 3 months outside.

    stick to oracals 210.
     
  7. idsignsil

    idsignsil Member

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    Springfield, IL
    We also switched to all 3M products because of a supplier change. They got bought out, and we now get all of the comparable 3M products for the same price or lower than the Oracal. Our customers are actually happier because of the brand name recognition, and are pleased with the 3M products.

    I don't want to steal this thread, but.....
    I have had a hard time finding 3M ICC profiles for a Roland XC-540. They have some on the web site, but I have to go to the European website so that I can actually download them. The U.S. website will not let me download anything... I don't know why. They so not have profiles for all of there materials like Oracal does. I have been getting by and have started working to create my own. Any suggestions...
     
  8. Bill43mx

    Bill43mx Member

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    Oct 19, 2004
    Gene,
    I went through the same process when we switched from 3165RA to IJ35C-10. The main reason for the change had nothing to do with being unhappy with Oracal, I was just getting away from "the cowboy" moving to a local supplier that carried 3M but not Oracal. For a while I also wondered if I was going to regret it just because this kinda fell into the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" catagory. After a year of using the IJ35C-10 I can say that I don't see any significant difference between the 2 and wouldn't hesitate to use them interchangeably.
     
  9. MindsEyeOpen

    MindsEyeOpen Member

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    Jan 17, 2011
    What laminate are you using with it?
     
  10. john1

    john1 Guest

    x100 on the laminate, I had the 8509 last under 6 months before the product curled all around, even on rounded edges.

    I have been using General Formulations Concept 203 and 201 with the GF laminate and love it for everyday print/cut jobs. You can get this at Fellers or at Grimco. At Grimco it's labeled under BriteLine.

    Oracals films are great also but i prefer the General Formulations personally.
     
  11. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    for those of you that use Montroy, their MonCor lam is rebranded arlon from what i was told.

    ive used miles of it. love it.

    your welcome montroy.
     
  12. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    wtf is Montroy
     
  13. klemgraphics

    klemgraphics Active Member

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    Midwest
    +1
     
  14. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    you would like it better if it was called ManTroy huh?
     
  15. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Denver.

    Do they sell long tubes with stuff on it?
     
  16. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    on it, or in it?
     
  17. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    .....
     
  18. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    3551RA is gold... i use it for my flat graphics that I don't want to spend the dough on 180C. zero failures in extreme conditions, most times on bare (sanded,cleaned) aluminum but my MDO signage has held up just fine, over the years, as well.
     
  19. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Have you tried melting it down, and maybe selling it?
























    ok im done.
     
  20. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    Racine, WI
    shoot, if i could do that, I'd be rich as heck with my 600'+ of 10" cutoff strips. (entire rolls, and matching laminate, no splices. i'm such a packrat, but my scraps in handy)
    p.s. anyone need 10" 3551RA... i'm your man :)
     
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