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4x8 post and panel install. Concrete or not?

Installing a 4x8 acm sign. Built a 2x4 frame to attach the sign to and sticking it between to 6x6 posts in the ground. My question is do you normally use concrete in the holes or not.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
40" holes with 2 bags in each hole, unless this is a real estate sign or not a permanent sign.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Kansas can get some high winds, Dorothy, like Gino said 40"deep with two bags each hole to be safe.
Some say just use a heavy pry bar and tamp dirt down good all the way around posts in the holes if it is temporary.
 

Billct2

Active Member
I do 4x8s on 4X4 posts with a bag of crete in each hole and never had a problem. 6x6 with crete is going nowhere. When I first started the guy I worked for never used concrete for jobs like that, 36" deep holes and compact the hell out of the fill (which always had rocks), concrete is easier, especially the new no mix stuff
 

Sandman

New Member
I never use concrete when I can dig deep enough. Code here is 42 inches but the frost often goes deeper so I always dig 4 feet. If I can’t go deep enough I always use concrete. Another variable is height of the sign and as mentioned soil condition. Loose soil would probably require concrete. Old rule of thumb: one third of pole length underground, two thirds above ground. The taller the sign the higher the wind load.
 

dale911

President
It’s post set concrete that is set in about 20 minutes or so. You pour it around the post dry. I usually pour it in and pack it into place with everything plumb and then some people will leave it and walk to let moisture from the ground or rain finish it but I pour water over it and then throw some dirt over that so grass will grow around the post.

In Indiana , it’s pretty common to just run them into the ground 24” for street signs, 4x8 temp signs and things. I dig a hole last week down 24” that I couldn’t even get the auger to drill. I had to chisel it with a hole digger because the clay was so hard and compacted. I personally won’t do any sign posts that are large and permanent because they can’t pay me enough to dig a hole that deep. As a wholesale installer, I would want $300-500 per post if I can’t auger it but I’m old and would rather be in the shop running the printers or in the bucket making service call money.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
Tell me about... This summer, the ground has got so hard that I have to use a concrete stabber metal pole thing to dig the dirt up... I even tried a hammer drill with a large concrete bit attached to it.. (Yes, I was desperate)

I have to do another sign this week...I'm hoping Arlington got in on that rain last week and maybe softened the ground up... I can't take much more of this hard dirt.
 

ikarasu

Active Member
Yes, it's a quick dry concrete . Made for fence posts / sign posts.

We use 2 bags per post... Sometimes 3 if we dig deep enough. Each bag is 50lb.. so you're adding about 100lb+ of weight to each post. It helps make sure the sign doesn't shift when the ground gets wet als

That said your adding 200lb to the signs weight. So when / if you need to remove it... You'll be chipping away at cement to do it. So it's good for permanent fixtures only.

We do a lot of rain garden signs. So areas where the ground is made of soil, and gets drenched every day. Usually they're at schools... So there will be kids hanging off them, jumping off them, etc. Never have we had one tip or shift.
 

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brycesteiner

New Member
for temporary I don't use any. We use bags of concrete and we just pour it in dry and let the rain do it's job. We use it to pack it down on the bottom and use that as the leveling agent too.
 

ams

New Member
Why use 6X6's? I always do 10' pressure treated 4X4's with one bag of concrete in each hole. To this day, never had a problem in years. I've seen many signs with no concrete tilted and falling over. If you don't use concrete, bury them 30" but with concrete do 24"
 

bannertime

Active Member
I'm hoping Arlington got in on that rain last week and maybe softened the ground up... I can't take much more of this hard dirt.

We did get some decent rain. Still sitting water in some spots. Lucky. Just about a week ago we had to water some holes for a few hours just to finish the last 18 inches with an auger.
 
Why use 6X6's? I always do 10' pressure treated 4X4's with one bag of concrete in each hole. To this day, never had a problem in years. I've seen many signs with no concrete tilted and falling over. If you don't use concrete, bury them 30" but with concrete do 24"

6x6's look better than 4x4's. I'd use 6x6 posts as well, if I don't want my sign looking like every other generic sign out there. 30" depth might work in Virginia, but not in Kansas.
 

ams

New Member
6x6's look better than 4x4's. I'd use 6x6 posts as well, if I don't want my sign looking like every other generic sign out there. 30" depth might work in Virginia, but not in Kansas.

We have red clay and strong dirt. But I still don't see how 6X6's look better. Are you building an entire framing system? or just using brackets and putting between the posts?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
We have red clay and strong dirt. But I still don't see how 6X6's look better. Are you building an entire framing system? or just using brackets and putting between the posts?


Why not read the OP's opening post and follow along with the story ??

Another question would be..... is this sign 1 or 2 sided ??​
 
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