Adhesive in cold weather

[bigben]

I have two aluminum signs (18in wide X 24in high X 0.81 thick) that need to be mounted on a building. The surface of the building is painted aluminum. The customer don't want any holes on the building. I would normally use VHB tape, but I have a concern about the temperature that is now below the freezing point.

Any suggestions/recommendations? Thanks.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Warm up the sign panel in the cab of your truck.Torch or heat gun the wall.

 

[bigben]

Warm up the sign panel in the cab of your truck.Torch or heat gun the wall.

That was my first idea, but I had concern because the material would be cold fast. The temperature here are already between 32 and 14 fahrenheit. Did you ever tried it with VHB tape?

 

[Baz]

If you can do it this week then you are golden (above 0 degrees all week!)
If not then pre-heating the surfaces will work. Once it is stuck, it stays stuck!

 

[TimToad]

Apply your tape to the back of the panel BEFORE you leave the shop and let it sit overnight. Once out on the job site, add some good sized dabs of LEXEL high strength adhesive or your preferred gel adhesive and the combination of it and the VHB and it should be plenty.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I'm assuming you mean 12 gauge aluminum (0.08081", commonly known as .080). 0.81 would almost be an inch thick!

Use screws. 3M does not recommend VHB tape for cold weather applications, but it can work under certain circumstances. The faliure point will be the paint surface you are bonding to. Try to scrape away enough paint to get a direct contact with the substrate. By that time, you might as well just use screws!

 

[bannertime]

If you can make the sign out of aluminum composite, I think the tape would be a non-issue. I wouldn't really trust tape with .080 18x24 on a painted surface. Making it out of ACM would drop the weight enough that tape would be perfect.

 

[bigben]

If you can do it this week then you are golden (above 0 degrees all week!)
If not then pre-heating the surfaces will work. Once it is stuck, it stays stuck!

Unfortunately, it could take a week or two before I will do the job.

Apply your tape to the back of the panel BEFORE you leave the shop and let it sit overnight. Once out on the job site, add some good sized dabs of LEXEL high strength adhesive or your preferred gel adhesive and the combination of it and the VHB and it should be plenty.

The signs are already made and up on post. The customer want to move them on the building and install other signs on the posts. But it is a good idea tu une LEXEL. I always have a tube with me. But does it work in cold temperature?

I'm assuming you mean 12 gauge aluminum (0.08081", commonly known as .080). 0.81 would almost be an inch thick!

Use screws. 3M does not recommend VHB tape for cold weather applications, but it can work under certain circumstances. The faliure point will be the paint surface you are bonding to. Try to scrape away enough paint to get a direct contact with the substrate. By that time, you might as well just use screws!

Yes, it's 12 gauge. The customer don't want me to make any holes on the aluminum and I don't think scrapping the paint would be an option either.

If you can make the sign out of aluminum composite, I think the tape would be a non-issue. I wouldn't really trust tape with .080 18x24 on a painted surface. Making it out of ACM would drop the weight enough that tape would be perfect.

Like I said above, the signs are already made. So I can't change that part.

I will tell my concerns and solution to the customer, then let him take the decision. I think it would be safer for me in case something fail.

 

[rjssigns]

100,000 btu torpedo heater. Kero or propane doesn't matter. We did a glass etch job in January, during a snowstorm with one. Put it in the back of the shop vehicle and pointed it at the pane of glass.
Kept us warm and made the vinyl adhere. It was a while ago, but I thing we did 6 separate windows that day.

 

[bigben]

100,000 btu torpedo heater. Kero or propane doesn't matter. We did a glass etch job in January, during a snowstorm with one. Put it in the back of the shop vehicle and pointed it at the pane of glass.
Kept us warm and made the vinyl adhere. It was a while ago, but I thing we did 6 separate windows that day.

You did not had concern about problem like cracking glass or any other damage due to sudden temperature changes?

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

You did not had concern about problem like cracking glass or any other damage due to sudden temperature changes?

If you're only warming the glass to 70-80 degrees or so, I can't see this really being much of a concern. Especially if the heater is far enough away to warm the entire glass surface.

 

[Gino]

I hafta agree with kcollins...... You want a double sided tape to adhere to bare aluminum and then to paint. Sure it will work, but I would not wanna put my signature on something the customer demanded like that. Customers can request colors, layouts and designs, but not installations. Whether or not the customer wants holes or not, regardless of aluminum to wood, to paint, to snot..... they don't set the parameters. Codes does that.

There are all kindsa glue adhesives and none of them ever mention outdoor painted aluminum walls. Not that I ever heard of at least. Most of the products mentioned here are fine for interior work, no matter what the temperatures are outside. Go outside and you change the whole ballgame. How many structures do you see glued together outside with double-sided tape..... professionally. Next, what are the components ??

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I VHB'd some ACM to what appeared to be giant ACM panels for an exterior wall at an auto dealership. They wouldn't let me drill. Those signs stayed up for years and then I had to take them down to change them...it took all my might to remove them. I guess it depends on how the aluminum is painted and would the paint peel off? My wall looked like a factory finish so there was no problem there. After I took the signs off it looked worse then if I has just drilled holes

 

[ikarasu]

We've done it plenty of times... some customers hate holes. VHB tape should hold up fine. Just dont treat it like a simple tape and slap job -

Scuff the surface, clean it with alcohol... use a heatgun to warm it, apply the tape and apply pressure for a good 20-30 seconds.... Re-heat the sign/surface a little, and it should be ok.

.080 aluminum weights 1.2 lbs a sqft aprox. 3 SQFt...so 3.6 lbs. 8.5" per 2 LB roughly. I'd likely VHB Around all edges, 84"... or close to 20 lb strength.

Of course these are all best case scenarios - A cheap painted drywall will likely peel if you put 20 lb on it. But if you go around the edges, pre-heat and scuff with a brillpad or something, then reheat. you'll be fine.

Is it ideal? No... Nothing beats mechanical fasteners, but reality is not every job can be mechanically fastened. Is it going to fall off? doubtful...

If you're really concerned, throw some PL max on it. You can apply PL in -12 celcius... just be aware it's going to be a permanent bond, you'll likely tear the paint off the aluminum if they ever try to remove the signs. Let them know this will be it's new permanent home. You'd be amazed at how people would rather a permanent bond glue that will likely damage their wall a lot more than a screw would. Then summer hits,and they want it positioned in a new spot...

https://www.lepage.ca/en/lepage-pro.../pl-construction-adhesive/pl_premium_max.html

 

[Gino]

Ikarasu brings up a good point.

You wanna instal these things, when the walls and signs are in their almost completely contracted phase, due to the cold, which it will only get colder. Come warm weather and the stuff wants to expand....... are these tapes and glues that giving ?? Aluminum is about the most contracting/expanding substrate you can use.

 

[rjssigns]

You did not had concern about problem like cracking glass or any other damage due to sudden temperature changes?

Nah. Common sense rules the day. We kept the heater 8 feet or so away from the glass. This gave a good spread across the surface then we waited. Heat hitting the glass was about what you get out of a furnace vent in your home. Heater was ingesting sub-zero air for combustion taming the output considerably.
It's the only way I know how to do IG panels in the cold.

For single pane glass we put electric heaters on the inside. Quartz tube style or flat panels work a treat.

 

[bigben]

So just for a follow up.

I've installed my two signs using two strip of VHB tape and some Lexel (the specification of the lexel said it work up to -18 celsius or 0 fahrenheit). The outside temperature was around -8 celcius (17 fahrenheit). I've heated the sign and aluminum surface with a torch before install them and everything went well. I've went back 5 days after to check it out and everything was solid. I go often at this location. So I will check it out from time to time.