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Advice and Help Starting Sign Shop?

SolitaryT

New Member
Hello everyone,

I recently moved to a small, artsy town in Colorado, and I've worked for sign companies for over a decade. We moved here because we just had a baby girl and all of my family lives here. As pretty as Alaska and Montana are, it's really hard to have a little one and no family around. I've been back for just about two weeks, and already I've had several people who I've known for a long time ask me if I'm planning to set up a sign shop. I hadn't really considered it, but it seems like, without even looking and by reputation alone (small town, 5,000 people, so word of mouth travels pretty fast). It seems like a logical thing to pursue, but I have no idea how to go about making it happen. I'm organized, and I've done management for small sign shops elsewhere, but I've never had to start it up myself, and I'm not sure how to go about doing it. Hit me back with tips, info, all that jazz... Thanks in advance, and I love you all.
 

Techman

New Member
If you do it.. Then just do it. Not half way,

No dabbling. Just go for it. You will make it work. Every thing will fall into place.

If you go after it as a maybe deal people will sense it and not give you full respect.
 

SolitaryT

New Member
It's not a question of commitment, I guess. If I'm going to do it, it'll get nothing short of 100% of my attention. I've always loved making signs, and I hope to do it for a long time. I guess for me it's just a question of logistics. Where do I get a business license? How do I get capital with admittedly ****ty credit? Do I need insurance? Do I need a business plan? I have no idea where to start. I mean, for me, I just want to take an order and get going.
 

player

New Member
Do you have:
-A shop, workspace
-Fast computer / design software
-A truck or larger van
-Tools

If you don't have good credit, perhaps leasing a printer/cutter would work
 

TimToad

Active Member
It's not a question of commitment, I guess. If I'm going to do it, it'll get nothing short of 100% of my attention. I've always loved making signs, and I hope to do it for a long time. I guess for me it's just a question of logistics. Where do I get a business license? How do I get capital with admittedly ****ty credit? Do I need insurance? Do I need a business plan? I have no idea where to start. I mean, for me, I just want to take an order and get going.

At the onset, I don't want my advice to be viewed by you or anyone else as simply discouraging or discounting your chance to make to it work. My only dog in this hunt is to be the bucket of cold water named REALITY.

A love of making signs isn't enough to guarantee success or even competency at managing the demands of your own business. Throwing in a newborn and all the time and attention that effective parenting requires is huge.

What is the population of the entire area within a 25-30 mile radius of you? If it's under 50-100,000 and there are several existing sign shops already, I'd say you'll have a tough time. This type of business relies on both a decent sized business core within a 30 minute drive and enough turnover in businesses to keep feeding you work over the years. I can't see how a population of 5,000 is nearly enough to support a full time venture.

How well established are the other shops in the area?

There are a couple of insurance policies you'll need, as well as licensing, etc.

Your creditworthiness is critical to your decision and so is startup capital. Without both, you will be confined to small jobs, COD payments for nearly all your supplies which eats into cash flow, which makes paying yourself and your fixed costs (rent, utilities, etc. ) in a timely fashion a lot harder. Just when you think you've covered the expense bases, something else pops up that bites you. Computers go down, software needs updating, things break, trucks break down, or need brakes, or tires, or engines, etc.

I cannot emphasize enough how important writing a business plan is to the entire process. The SBA and the internet in general has tremendous resources available in this regard.

When you're done researching and writing your first business plan, put it in a drawer and do another one without trying to talk yourself into believing its just a matter of hard work and some good luck. A good, well researched business plan is not an internal cheerleading session designed to give you the answer your heart wants to hear.

Good luck and do your homework.
 

phototec

New Member
It's not a question of commitment, I guess. If I'm going to do it, it'll get nothing short of 100% of my attention. I've always loved making signs, and I hope to do it for a long time. I guess for me it's just a question of logistics. Where do I get a business license? How do I get capital with admittedly ****ty credit? Do I need insurance? Do I need a business plan? I have no idea where to start. I mean, for me, I just want to take an order and get going.

Wow, based on the questions you are asking, I would have to honest with you and tell you NOT to open a sign shop because it sounds like you know NOTHING about starting business or running one!

It take a lot more than commitment, you need to know the answers to all the questions you asked, of course you need a business license (file for one in your county/state) and insurance.

If you don't have the money saved up to start a business and you have bad credit, no one but a loan shark from the MOB will loan you any money, banks want someone with a good credit track record (showing they know how to manage money) and have a solid business proposal (plan), showing that they have done their homework and know how much money they need to borrow, and what the facilities, equipment, utilities, labor, insurance, quarterly taxes, and expendable materials will cost and what the return on the investment will be.

I would strongly suggest you keep working for someone else and building your credit up and put money in a savings account so someday when you are REALLY ready and have all your ducks in a row you can then think about opening a sign shop.

This may not be what you want to hear, but because you asked the questions above and you don't even know where you would apply for a business license in your community and you have bad credit it tells me you not ready to be a business person. IMO


It takes a LOT MORE then you just want to do it!


https://www.colorado.gov/apps/jboss/cbe/start-business.xhtml
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
My 1st thought in starting any sign business these days is design only limiting yourself to just computers & software. Then have other shops cut, print, install.

I don't suppose your hand lettering if so no problem because then you could create a market in a small town.

Myself I do not see future for small shops spending huge amounts of money on what it takes to make signs after it's designed because every few years the machines are faster & better so with just that ya never be able to keep up with the big competitors, unless you luck out & get great contracts.

Now being in a small town it may be different in your area, so I think & research carefully & follow above advice, sure wish I had some these resources 40 years ago like Signs 101.
 

bomaboat

New Member
The old heads on these forums are all doom and gloom. This is the second time I've become grumpy from reading their overly negative and disheartening replies to the new generation of sign makers.

I started up a sign business a little over two years ago and things are going great. I've reinvested a lot of the money I made that isn't for paying bills, and in every case the investment has more than paid for itself. I detest subbing anything out when I can. In almost every case my own work is superior to the subs. I'm in the process now of figuring out if its worth it to buy a laser engraver to bring that work in house. I need a proper paint booth too. Both are huge investments.

The trick for me was finding my own niche and convincing a few customers to use me. Signs mostly sell themselves, but you've got to find the customers. Create some samples of the types of signs your customers will want and get to knocking. When I found my first customers I had 6-9 months of entirely unkempt beard growth and dreadlocks down the middle of my back. There were people that ushered me out the door before listening to my sales pitch, but eventually a few looked at my work and that was that.

tl;dr: You can do it!
 

Jillbeans

New Member
I would try and find a good job working somewhere reliable with good benefits and do signs as a hobby. Sorry to sound all gloom and doom but I wouldn't let even an enemy get into the sign business. You have a child and wife to support, you said your credit is crappy too. You need to have special insurance to letter vehicles at home, not sure about your business license or how your state handles sales tax. It's a hard row to hoe.

Recently someone in my area opened a sign franchise, I wish she would have came to me and asked me about it. There is not enough business here to support a new sign business and this person hadn't the first clue about anything sign related. I can't even imagine the amount of money she lost in two years.

A love of making signs by itself is not going to put food on your table...believe me I know.
Love...Jill
 

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
Bomaboat.. I like how ya express your opinion about the old heads & gloom & doom part is the real kicker, got a good laugh.

But lets look at reality a bit you live in a highly populated area with a great deal of freedom from government Dallas Texas, the other person live in a very small town in Colorado that is primarily a outdoor state so limited freedoms but still good for signs, but add in low cash & credit & a new child, economic risks are something of a mountain to climb for anybody.

Sure ya can make good money in the sign business these days, you might say by used equipment one at a time & slowly build up, great

I would say become the best designer ya can in the sign business, computer & software are low cost compared to hardware needed & let others do the labor work & slowly build business.

Subbing work is a excellent way to learn all the tricks of trade & government while you have time to raise a child & like Jillbeans says find a job that pays the bills, this is being smart & family members will be more willing to help.

I applaud you for doing so well in your business & very glad ya got it going on & see a bright future & wish you the very best..

Reality is what this person needs not cheerleading
 

OldPaint

New Member
US OLD TIMERS........had something most today DONT HAVE..........TALENT & ABILITY TO DRAW, PAINT & CREATE...........using our brain and hands.
that and a couple cans of 1-SHOT, some quills & truck flats........and go find some work))))))
also THEN.......when we completed a job say for $200, $195.00 WAS OUR MONEY)))) $5 for paint, turps, tape and lunch))))) we didnt need to BUY..........CLIPART/GRAPHICS we created ours. we didnt have to have a $20,000.00 printer, $10,000.00 laminator, ink for the printer at $100.00 a color. vinyl to print on at $2-300.00 a roll. no building, no A/C, no electric, no computer))))))))))))))))))
so i would suggest to anyone getting into the business today........
HAVE BAGS OF MONEY, OR ACCESS TO PLENTY OF IT...........be prepared to SPEND A LOT OF IT, to produce a product that you will sell for LESS THEN THE GUY DOWN THE STREET, just to keep the machine running. working many hours, to PAY ALL THE SUPPLIERS, THE LOAN FOR THE EQUIPMENT............and maybe you can pocket a little money in 5-6 years))))))))
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Really............ ??

Wow-wee.......

What happened to the 'ya gotta start somewhere' mentality connected with this place ??

I mean, having a kid and family.... should motivate the living daylights out of ya, let alone give you the burning sensation in your stomach to succeed. If ya wait around until you have all your ducks in a row, you're never gonna reach out to take that golden opportunity/ring on the merry-go-round of life.

Sure, it's gonna be tough, but after the kid is a year old, two years old or whatever, it's going to continue to be tough to get into this business. One can always find the excuses to put something off, but this OP is showing complete logic in putting something together for himself while investing in his local community. Who, here, depends entirely on their local marketplace for all of their income ?? The possibilities are endless and while he might not be able to afford all the bells and whistles up front, he can certainly set the whole thing in motion.

The best advice so far has been, make up a business plan and work yourself into it. Don't be afraid to fail at/in one area or change direction here or there. A business plan is never carved in stone. Some of the people here have had to make subtle changes in their plan while others have made extremely big and bold moves to keep their feet afloat. From working around the computer age, to shifting directions within their goals to firing people or taking on new employees. The most successful business people are those who can see a potential problem, thwart it and roll with the punches without any harm coming to them.... or the business.


Good luck. It will be demanding and at times quite exhausting, but you sound like you just might have what it takes to really become something on your own. :thumb:
 

Billct2

Active Member
I'm with the "get a job with benefits and do it part time" crowd.
You say it's an artsy mountain town, so I would start with doing creative handmade dimensional signs with basic power/hand tools.
They would fit the vibe of the area. Any vinyl or digital prints stuff that you may need buy whole sale.
Try that for a while and if it starts to grow you can eventually make it your full time gig.
 

TimToad

Active Member
The old heads on these forums are all doom and gloom. This is the second time I've become grumpy from reading their overly negative and disheartening replies to the new generation of sign makers.

I started up a sign business a little over two years ago and things are going great. I've reinvested a lot of the money I made that isn't for paying bills, and in every case the investment has more than paid for itself. I detest subbing anything out when I can. In almost every case my own work is superior to the subs. I'm in the process now of figuring out if its worth it to buy a laser engraver to bring that work in house. I need a proper paint booth too. Both are huge investments.

The trick for me was finding my own niche and convincing a few customers to use me. Signs mostly sell themselves, but you've got to find the customers. Create some samples of the types of signs your customers will want and get to knocking. When I found my first customers I had 6-9 months of entirely unkempt beard growth and dreadlocks down the middle of my back. There were people that ushered me out the door before listening to my sales pitch, but eventually a few looked at my work and that was that.

tl;dr: You can do it!

Label me or anyone else here what you like, most of us speak from experience and know what it takes to tackle a multitude of major obstacles like the OP admitted having. Small town, baby on the way, bad credit, little capital, no idea of licensing or insurance needs, etc... We don't even know what types of equipment or skills the OP actually has.

How many of those factors played into your scenario?

Its easy to discount those offering caution and due diligence when you're in a major urban area and folks with beards and dreads don't stand out as much as elsewhere. Did you have a newborn waiting in the wings? Had you lived in your area for long when you started up? Where did you live and how did you survive personally while you established yourself?

Comparing yourself and anyone is difficult and presents to many variables to be considered solid advice. So far, the only comparable things I see are a shared enthusiasm for the craft. As stated by myself and others, that alone won't cut it.

For all any of us know, you had the backing and support of others to ease the startup pains. Or great credit, or any number of other things the OP doesn't have.
 

SolitaryT

New Member
Here's the thing, everyone. With a few exceptions, I come here saying "I WANT TO DO THIS, AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW?" and you all say "DON'T". It's like you didn't read the question.

I have personally bad credit. A divorce, a move across country, many other factors have lead to this. Is it the end of the world? No. It's going to take some time to rebuild, personally, and that's all fine. That's on me.

I have done market research (lots of questions to local businesses, competition, etc.), found a part-time job in the interim, and may have even found some financial backing/partnership. I've RUN sign shops in the past, done it very well, managed and delegated, met deadlines, all that. I'm not scared of the work. I've been working since I was 12 throwing newspapers from my bike. I'm not asking you all for your blessing. I couldn't care less about how you all FEEL about me starting my shop. I'm going to do it. It's a good decision. The market is excellent. The competition is "complimentary" (the local graphic shops are specialized in certain things, all having a need for what I can do and do well). Life is good. I'm asking for advice and help. Tips. What you did right or wrong when you started your business. What works, what doesn't. I didn't ask for speculation, judgement, or unprofessional criticism based in your realities and not mine.

Anyway, to answer the honest questions:

player: I have access to a small "shed", this computer, which I'm currently running Adobe cs3 on, a 1984 Suburban, and a full set of power tools. I may be picking up an old Roland Printer from a former employer, so in a very rudimentary and rough sense, I do have the basics. I'm not really interested in remotely shipping, that may be more trouble than it's worth.

TimToad: This county, the area within a 30 mile radius, has less than 10,000 people. Expand it to a 60 mile radius, and that number triples in the summer, and includes ski resorts and summer recreation, all of which are serviced currently by Denver, which is over 150 miles away. The three other sign shops in the area, one is an arts co-op, one specializes in national drop shipping, and the third is a hobby project for someone who has it open only by appointment, maybe twice a month. None do metal signs, coroplast, or vinyl signage. The niche is here. I've also gone through sba.gov's website, and I've sketched/written up a rough draft for a business plan per their guidelines, and you're right, that was a tremendous resource, as I discovered weeks ago.

phototec: To respond to your one actual nugget of wisdom, yes, I've found a job in the interim to help make ends meet until I get established. I've even crafted it to be a job that could potentially feed my business, too. And not to be obvious, but you are telling me that I need to do my homework when in actuality, your response was a direct result of me doing my homework.

Craig Sjoquist: I actually have done a little bit of hand-lettering, and this market has a wonderful historic district, so I do plan to incorporate that into my business goal early on. That stuff, at least as far as production goes, is relatively low-overhead. As far as the future goes, I also have an idea that should help me compete with some of the bigger shops in the state. Of course, that's 10, maybe 20 years down the road. You're absolutely right though, signs101 and other resources like this are excellent, and I'm really thankful for the opportunity to pick so many intelligent brains!

bomaboat: One thing that's really got me excited here was that, before this was even a concept, people were asking me if I could make them a sign. I'm not saying it's taking all of the advertising and promoting off my plate, but I feel like I'm already sort of establishing a clientele, and I'm in the very infancy of this whole project. It's all about how you treat customers, and I've found in my experience running businesses that honesty and quality are the two things you can't go without.

Jillbeans: I've found a job to help me through this beginning patch. Sorry to hear about that person in your area that bought a franchise. I've worked for a few, and that's always a bad idea. The advantage I have over that person is actual experience and desire for making signs. I'm not saying I'm going to be the next Dan Sawatzky or anything, but I'm certain I can create a good thing here.

OldPaint: First off, I love your name. Second, as I told Craig Sjoquist, I do plan on incorporating paint and hand-lettering into my business plan. You saying I should just do that to start with? It's a great idea, low overhead, but I'd have to do more. This market is too small to rely on just that as a niche. Still, I like where your head is, and I appreciate the note.

HDvinyl: Part of my long term plan is to buy sign shops in other markets. I can't tell you what I'll do with them, I'm with you there. It's amazing how many sign shops are all over craigslist.

Gino: If you've made it this far into the thread, you can probably get a feel for where my head is. I've been through a bunch of difficult things in my life. I've lived out of a van to pay for rock climbing adventures. I moved to Alaska with my old family after our oldest son died. Then my ex took my only other son and moved here to Colorado. I didn't see my son for a whole year. Then I met someone else, we had a baby together, and moved to Bozeman, Montana (because travelling between Colorado and Alaska frequently is not cheap). Bozeman has **** for sign shops. I won't name names, but it ran the gamut from a franchise owned by a lady who illegally kept two sets of books to the son of an old hand-painter/wood-carver who didn't realize before I got there that you have to clean the printer at least once a week, to, finally, a former franchise turned "local" sign shop who cranked out really crappy quality signs in order to undercut the competition. I wound up taking a night job for $11.50/hour. We moved to Colorado to be closer to family, and because this town where we ended up, gives us a chance. All of that being said, I UNDERSTAND, COMPLETELY, that opening my own sign shop will be, at times, and probably frequently, MORE DIFFICULT THAN ALL OF THAT. All I can say is that if I made it this far, I'm damn sure not going to stop, no matter how hard it gets. So thank you, sir, for your encouragement. You are a scholar, and a gentleman. A man among men.

Billct2: See above and thank you!
 

SignManiac

New Member
No risk, then no reward. Forty years ago I was told that I wouldn't make it in the sign business because I had no proper training or education. I'm still getting edumacated.
 
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