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Am I Crazy????????

Discussion in 'Sales, Marketing, Pricing Etc.' started by mbarden, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. mbarden

    mbarden Active Member

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    I just lost a bid for (2) double sided, full color, 18x24 sign with steel H frame and double sided 6x24 bottom rider to some one charging $68 each. WTF is going on in this line of business that ***king idiots do that amount of work, with that expense for $68. I started my biz 6 years ago and I am beginning to think I made a HUGE mistake!!!

    MB
     
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  2. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    I know you're not going to believe this, but for some people, that's almost four times their out-a-pocket cost.

    If someone is buying volume, has better equipment or is just doing it as a hobby..... ya gotta start somewhere and get your foot in the door.
     
  3. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

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    Yup, lots of people in this business that think making money is a bad thing. Don't let it get to ya too much, move on to the next sale.
     
  4. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    start marketing to those least likely to make purchases of less than $200.
    Never again feel bad when someone beats you by 20 bux on a 80 bux order.
     
  5. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    $75 is the going price for those in this area.

    yay......
     
  6. Craig Sjoquist

    Craig Sjoquist Major Contributor

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    Agrees with Watsons

    But thinks $68 is to low would have been $120 here plus costs of frames or said good bye.

    I laugh at all the garbage that is out there now days and I tell them also ..Say who did that ? thank you I'll never go there lol

    Just wait you will see the sign and go geez why did he even pay for it
     
  7. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    This is what I did a couple years ago and it was the best move I ever made.
    You will find no end to the undercutting and competition on those small jobs that almost anyone can produce. You waste more time bidding on them and talking with the customer than the job is worth and you have to do ten of those kind of jobs and ten times the amount of bids, invoices, phone calls and designs to equal doing one larger job and dealing with only one customer.
     
  8. mbarden

    mbarden Active Member

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    Thanks Everyone,
    I have really been trying to move away from this end of the biz. Way to cut-throat. In this economy nothing is coming easy to anyone right now. We have finally hired a very competant employee and I am always worried about keeping him busy. it seems my job has shifted from owner/operator to owner/sales/estimator. I really don't think that any of those jerks in D.C. truely understand what it means to have an employee.My daily productivity and decisions are directly tied to the amount of food on my employees table. If I don't do a good job and work hard, then we do not have the work coming in for him to do to earn his living and pay his bills. It is that effin simple.
    Thank you for the replys as I always value the opinions of the hard working folks on this forum.
    MB
     
  9. Hog Wild graphics

    Hog Wild graphics Member

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    Go ahead and laugh. Shop down the road does them for $45.
     
  10. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    mb.......... what were the substrates ?? Aluminum, Cor-X, duran, PVC...... ?? That's the only cost factor in the whole scheme of things.
     
  11. ucmj22

    ucmj22 Very Active Member

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    who is John Galt?
     
  12. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Good book :thumb:
     
  13. mbarden

    mbarden Active Member

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    Hey Gino, .040 Aluminum for the substrates. 3/4" steel angle real estate frame. I mean for chrissake it takes at lesat 10 minutes to bolt the dam faces into the frame.
    MB
     
  14. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    I played the same game you did...only been doing this about 8 years now owning the company, been around it my whole life as a family company though. Everyone here said "stick to your guns" and never lower price. So far, this far in, it seems to be working for me. I don't have near the tire kickers stopping in that I used to. I seem to have sent all the lowballers that don't appreciate quality and good design, to the other guy in town.

    I understand people, sometimes you don't need quality and design, you just want "just enough to get it done", but they'll pay me the same either way, so that's their choice.

    We charge $100 retail for those and I sometimes feel like that's getting a good deal. If they ordered like 5 or more, I may drop it to $80 each.
     
  15. Locals Find!

    Locals Find! Very Active Member

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    I would have charged $68 for that using coro. For Aluminum would have been twice that. Your not crazy that is stupid cheap, and I am the guy that sells to the Real Estate industry. The cheapest customer base in the world.
     
  16. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Wait a minute....... you'd charge $68. for this job, but you add about $4.00 worth of material to the overall job and you'd double the cost to $136.00 ??
    mb's not the crazy one here... you are.


    • Where in the world do you come up with your theories ?? Do you pull them out of your as........................ ?? :banghead:
     
  17. Malkin

    Malkin Very Active Member

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    Augusta, ME
    Here is my logic in general terms:
    The digital print life should match the substrate.

    A coro sign only need intermediate vinyl, no lam (or maybe intermediate lam if I feel like abrasion might be an issue)

    An aluminum sign could last for years, and therefore gets the benefit of cast vinyl, cast lam, and probably a better print quality too.

    Maybe it's not quite double the price, but it's up there.
     
  18. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    For me...... your thinking is quite correct, but it's about 15 years behind the times.

    These are digitally being printed... with or without the lam is not the question.

    Let's try it this way.......
    You make a sign and it costs you $XX amount of dollars to make said sign.
    You now make it using all the same ingredients except one and your cost went up $4.00 in doing so.
    I understand increasing for the sake of a better quality, but to completely double it as Addie mentioned is pure nonsense.

    He pulls this sh!t out of the air and then spouts it out like he's some real estate genius and he's not in the real estate business or the sign business. He's a secretary for his Mother. He does this stuff on the side as he's already told us.

    His theory would be.... you sell a set of magnetic signs for $135. a pair, but if you letter the door directly using the exact same materials, colors and sizes and charging $300. lettered directly on the door. How do you explain to your customer that since you took the magnetics out of the equation, it now costs double for the exact same thing ??

    You need a plan and a structure... and you should follow those guidelines. Otherwise, just pulling numbers out of the air.... you'll end up doing your mother's clerical work. :doh:
     
  19. 10sacer

    10sacer Active Member

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    I wouldn't even charge half of that. Would take all of 9 minutes to print it all on the flatbed and be done with it.

    Plenty of wholesalers will charge you less than a $1 per square foot for coro work printed UV.

    I don't know what to charge using cut vinyl or print/mount vinyl - never done that stuff.

    Printing direct to coro - not aluminum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  20. Circleville Signs

    Circleville Signs Very Active Member

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    I'm on the lower end on that kind of a job as well. .040 aluminum with H frame and matching rider would be around $60/ea here - and I'm pretty high for my area on this stuff.
     
  21. Locals Find!

    Locals Find! Very Active Member

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    My cost would go up a lot more than $4.00 Try it would go up about 10 times my cost of the coro. I don't have the luxury of owning my own flatbed as you do and the people I outsource that too don't offer aluminum.

    I could put the 1 coro sign in with 9 others and divide up the costs. I pay a flat per sheet rate. So that leaves me with the only option for aluminum being ordering a digital print and applying it. Much more expensive on my end. Now I have created a superior longer lasting product with increased value.

    So damn right I am going to charge more, if you don't your either a fool or a liar. Which is it???
     
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