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are they failing that often? (Print Heads)

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by Kentucky Wraps, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    I'm considering going to HP Latex printer from Roland...but I'm a little curious why they market "cheap and easy to replace" print heads as a big factor? Do the print heads on HP or Latex print heads go out that often that price and ease of replacement is a selling point? I've had my Roland running for 4 years and haven't had to replace a single print head.
    Am I just lucky or is there a quality difference etc?
    Thanks.
     
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  2. jayhawksigns

    jayhawksigns Very Active Member

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    Yes, the heads are a consumable item. Your time spent changing one out is less then a minute. The printer will spend more time calibrating and such afterwards though. It just the model HP decided to go with the printer.
     
  3. Matt-Tastic

    Matt-Tastic Member

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    The Piezo heads that are in a roland, mimaki, etc. are designed to be "permanent heads" that are durable enough to last several years.

    The Thermal printheads in the HP are very cheap to produce, but have a short lifespan (about 3-8L of ink) The fact that they are user replaceable is a feature because the replacement is part of the periodic maintenance on the machine. The ink, along with typical consumables still add up to around 25-35 cents per sq ft.

    Its just a different mechanical design. The ink cartridges in your desktop inkjet printer are the same style heads as what HP uses.
     
  4. Freese

    Freese Member

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    Once you have a piezo head fail and have to pay $2k for a new one and a tech to replace it.....

    You'll go latex
     
  5. omgsideburns

    omgsideburns Very Active Member

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    At this point, having to replace 4 of 16 $1600 print heads in my machine, I think I'd rather have the disposables instead of the permaments.. at least you expect the cost when replacing them as part of routine maintenance.
     
  6. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    So 6 print heads that need changed out several times a year at $100 a pop is cheaper than 1 print head at $1000 once in 3 or 4 years? How do you figure?
    Or do you just mean the headache during that time of replacement. Because price of head replacement seems way higher in the long run with the Latex if you add it up over 3 years. I guess you just gotta factor that in.
     
  7. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Still with immediate cure time...it's well worth it I suppose. I just didn't realize print heads were considered a "consumable" item until now. Thanks guys.
     
  8. signswi

    signswi Very Active Member

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    We've used both styles, much prefer the HP consumables. Replacing a head on our mimaki jv3 takes us down for a half a day or more by the time you get done recalibrating it. Calculate the cost of the heads as a consumable in your ink costs and you still come out at a great square foot cost and you aren't losing nearly as much expensive human operator time (which on the HP is about 2 minutes to do a head change with no on-going daily maintenance).
     
  9. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    try about $2k a pop. the dx5 head alone is more than $1k.

    and unless you set up a savings account for a dx5 head replacement that you donate to every month of service on your printer, i would much rather replace a $100 head here and there than get a $2k bill in one shot as well as the downtime of having a tech have to come out to replace the dx5 head. downtime = major loss of money.
     
  10. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Very Active Member

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    I have had to change my heads once in the last year and we have over 10,000ml through them. We get our heads at $82.00each... I've gone through 3 cleaning kits since my last head change.

    The other nice thing is if one channel fails you only have to replace that head rather than the full bank.
     
  11. Matt-Tastic

    Matt-Tastic Member

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    when breaking down the cost of ownership, you have the following:
    L26500 (792 series)
    ink = 163/775mL = .21/mL
    Heads = 110/10000mL (using 2ct media's estimate) = .01/mL
    Cleaning Kit = 99/5000mL (estimate) = .02mL
    Maintenance kit = 110/5000mL = .02mL

    Total per milliliter cost for latex = .27/mL

    JV33 (SS21 ink)
    ink = 124/440mL = .28/mL
    Cleaning Solution for daily maintenance = 35/200mL = negligible

    Total cost per mL for JV33 - .28/mL

    Already they are near equal in cost per mL, with little of the downtime of when your printer has to be troubleshot for a bad head, replacement head ordered, replacement head installed. Both have to be calibrated, but the L26500 is automated, so you can be doing something else while its working.

    If you take care of your DX4/DX5 heads, you will upgrade the printer before you replace a head. But the "cost" associated with heads on the Latex is built into the cost per mL for ink.
     
  12. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Very Active Member

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    The L25500 has a ~$0.16/ml Ink price if you are looking to get a used printer... Ink carts are $108 - $128 on average.
     
  13. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    I do not use OEM ink on our Mimaki, that being said I pay .10 per ml for ink. Changing a DX5 head in a Mimaki JV33, literally about 15 minutes, plus another 5 minutes to run a new dot position calibration. If you shop it around you can get a new DX5 head for under a grand, taken care of it will last a few years.

    Of course I realize I tend to be more resourceful and adventerous than most when it comes to working on my own machine. Most will simply deal with days of downtime and wait on a tech to come replace it for them and most do not run bulk ink that comes in 2 liter boxes so my numbers/experience are not quite average.

    For utter simplicity and ease I cannot knock how you replace the heads on a HP though. I dont think it gets any easier or faster than that. I also woudl readily agree that Epsons price gouging on their piezo heads is harsh but then again, grand format heads are not really cheap either. Also, yes, on older 3 and 4 head DX4 head machines, it's a good bit more complicated to replace the head with much more calibrations required. Probably much the same with other newer multiple head machines with "permanent" heads as well since there is the whole physical alignment needed between each head. Single head machines tend to eliminate much of the calibrations needed since all channels are within the same physical head.
     
  14. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Active Member

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    Hey Matt....dont forget proper disposal of solvent ink waste....nearly $10 or more per gallon if using enough ink and solvent to justify Safety Kleen pickup.
     
  15. Scott Reynolds

    Scott Reynolds Active Member

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    $50 for 5 gal ?!?

    Take a 5 gal bucket, in ones with the pull up pour spout on it. Just go around the corner to you local auto parts store and pour it in to their waste oil drum. Its free..... :doh:

    I know I know .... at least I dont pour in on the ground behind the shop! :popcorn:
     
  16. ProColorGraphics

    ProColorGraphics Very Active Member

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    I also like the "oh crap!" incidents. If you have a nasty head strike or something to that effect and take out a couple heads, at least with the HP it's only going to be about $200 tops and you can be up and going in minutes. As most HP users can afford to have extra heads sitting on there shelves as backup.
     
  17. Matt-Tastic

    Matt-Tastic Member

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    Very true, but a lot of cities have local disposal of used paint and motor oil, and many of those will take your solvent waste as well. You're paying for that in your local taxes anyway.

    And, sadly, many users don't bother with proper waste disposal. But, to be honest, if you run your machine enough (i.e. you're putting more ink on vinyl than in the waste tank on cleanings), it'll take a LONG time to fill up one of the safety-kleen 10gal buckets.
     
  18. Matt-Tastic

    Matt-Tastic Member

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    Are you using the Triangle Eco-Bulk system? .10 per mL is a ridiculously good price for solvent ink, if its made well :)

    And i'll agree that if you are willing to shop around and do the work yourself, you can save a lot of time and money on service for your solvent printer. Heck, if you have enough of them, you can even refurbish your own heads (sonic washer) and never buy new heads again. rarely to heads die because your smashed something into them. Unless you're really mean to your printer. :doh:
     
  19. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    Yep.... best bulk system I've had the pleasure to use. Work great, and their ink ain't too bad either. :wink:

     
  20. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    well thanks guys...I see the benefits of the heads as a consumable part in the long run if they are that cheap. Also, as for ink disposal...if it's dry, like on a print...it's not improper disposal...so just pour it onto the backing of rolled out in the outdoors...it'll dry in a short time and then you can just throw it out with the trash...it's equal to a print at that point.
    Just make sure it's outside so the solvent fumes get blown away.
     
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