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Bad Experience, Print, Laminate, Cut, Help Please

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by JewelSki, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. JewelSki

    JewelSki New Member

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    May 17, 2012
    Hi all,

    Im brand new to print and cut, I have a job (my First) which is a sticker kit for a Go-Kart, Its taken 1 week for me to designs all the separate graphics/sizes etc,, I have purchased #M Motormark in white and clear But, before using those I have just printed it all out on normal sticker vinyl to test it first, heres what happened:
    1, loaded designs in versaworks, set as a nested job, set it to do registration marks and set Print Only,, all good
    2, hung it up to outgas for 24 hours all good
    3, went to lay the clear vinyl over the top, - Disaster, air bubbles everywhere, tired to get as many out as I could but not working well at all
    4, put it back in the to cut, opened versaworks where I did save the job But its now showing up as a totally different layout to how it printed, not sure why its now showing up different at all, anyway I let it go hoping it would still cut in the order it printed,, It didnt and cut accross all design in the wrong order

    The whole thing is completely ruined, lucky it was not done on the correct materials as that would of been worse but still I need to have this job done yesterday (literally), so upset

    How do I lay the clear down without all the drama and air bubbles and why didnt it cut in the correct order?
    Any advise would be greatly appreciated :(

    Oh like I said im Very new to this, only owned the machine (Roland BN20) for not quite 2 weeks and before this go kart job ive only made I small sticker, which did not have to have any laminate/clear vinyl on top

    Thanks in advance
     
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  2. john1

    john1 Guest

    Hello, Welcome from Maryland.

    For the laminate (make sure your clear vinyl is in fact laminate like you need to overlaminate/protect your graphics) alot on the forums use a laminator and if you don't have room for one or cash, use the http://www.bigsqueegee.com like myself. This tool is very affordable (under $100) and allows you to laminate your prints flawlessly.

    It does take some learning but i learned in about a hour of piddling with it about 3 years ago and use it weekly now.

    I always keep versaworks open if i can if i have jobs that need to be contour cut, all you need to do is leave the job details alone, just go in and hit cut only and load your media in with the registration mark towards your body while loading. Once it's in then you hit print and it will read the crop marks and begin to contour cut. Don't forget to adjust the downforce for laminated graphics vs non-laminated ones.

    Now i know you probably do not have time to wait a few days for the big squeegee tool so in the mean time, I have seen guys take application fluid and flood the adhesive side of laminate and wet lay it onto the vinyl. Now this is messy but i have seen guys do it and it works well. Make sure you get all the fluid out before loading into the Roland and dry it down VERY good. Use a squeegee with a felt sleeve or a piece of microfiber cloth so it doesn't scratch the print. Odd way to do it but like i said, i have seen people do it.

    Good luck!
     
  3. JewelSki

    JewelSki New Member

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    May 17, 2012
    Thank you John so much for replying, really appreciated

    Ive not even heard or been told I would need a separate machine to laminate, I will do a search for them and also look at the big squeegee and hope I can purchase on here in Australia

    I did close down versaworks after I printed because I was told everything I print I need to hang it up for 24 hours so it outgasses, is that right? (I hope its not as that seems not very productive for getting quick orders out for stickers, clothing etc, I honestly thought I could print, cut then press straight away) But I saved the job in versaworks,, this morning I opened versaworks, the job was still there and I did not change any setting except for telling it to cut only,, but I noticed the designs showing on the screen were not in the same position they were when they printed and I dont know why.

    Thanks again for your reply
     
  4. john1

    john1 Guest

    Yes of course you need a way to laminate prints. I mean the eco-solvent inks are good for a few years without laminate but laminate make a nicer finished product and protects the prints from outdoor elements and anything that may scuff up the print even more.

    The big squeegee is going to be your best bet if you just have the BN20 machine which isn't really big. I laminate 30" wide prints all the time with ease.

    Not sure why it didn't cut correctly but something had to have happened. It takes practice and i'm sure it was something silly that made the mistake since you are new to this.

    The owner of the big squeegee is a merchant members here (check out the directory) and PM him about shipping to your area.
     
  5. 401Graphics

    401Graphics Very Active Member

    I own a big squeegee, i think it is a 56 inch. I dont like it, bought a laminator instead. I now use it as a straight edge and weight to hinge graphics onto substrates. Ill sell it to you if your interested
     
  6. Wiggum PI

    Wiggum PI Member

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    Melbourne Australia
    In Versaworks you need to have the queue A or B settings set to save after ripping/printing, but from what your describing you may have/not set it to centre on material during one of but not the other steps. Did it cut just to the side of the graphics or completely random?
    As far as laminating, take an application workshop via Avery or 3m..

    G'day from up north btw..

    Chris.
     
  7. JewelSki

    JewelSki New Member

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    May 17, 2012
    Thanks everyone for the replies, I guess im going to have to do a lot of research as it was not mentioned to me before purchase that I would need a separate machine to complete jobs, nor does any of the videos Ive watched shot it coming out of the printer, then getting laminated then put back into the cutter,, the videos show it printing, cutting,weeding then applying, nothing else :(

    Does anyone know if there is a list or somewhere it states what products/substrates need to be laminated and what I can use this for that doesnt?

    Im starting to feel that now im going to be very limited to what I can make without having to go to more expense with another machine or big squeegee thingy. :(

    Im going to look now at laminators and the squeegee to see how much im up for

    Thanks again to those that replied, I really appreciate the help

    P.S 401 graphic, Are you in Australia, if so how much is it?
     
  8. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    There is no specific material list. Essentially if its intended to last more that about a year outdoors or might be subject to abrasion or cleaning, it needs to be laminated. Of course sales videos/literature do not promote that you need more than what they are selling.....
     
  9. edgette

    edgette Member

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    Most of my work is short term graphics but I needed to laminate some prints. I tried the BS and wasn't completely happy with the results so I bought a manual laminator on ebay for around $200 in a 28" version. It takes two people to operate because you need to pull back the backing on the laminate but it works great for the once a week job I need to laminate.
     
  10. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    Jan 12, 2008
    Look at the EM-Seal Applikators made in Melbourne we have one and it works very nice, we were gonna buy another but with your strong dollar and shipping it would not be cost effective for us.

    We ended up with a US Tech Pro Series for our second laminator. Have only done a couple jobs with it but it is working quite well also.

    While you can laminate small jobs with the big squeegie its not really a replacement for a laminator.
    Good luck

     
  11. cdiesel

    cdiesel Very Active Member

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    I'd bet the nesting changing position has to do with one of two things: Versaworks set to center on media, and the media width changing. I would recommend NOT centering on media for print/cut processes. Also, make sure the media width (set via pinch roller positions) is at least as wide on the cut process as it was on the print process. If the RIP sees a smaller width, it may re-nest the files to accomodate the smaller width.
     
  12. john1

    john1 Guest

    Beg to differ. I have laminated 8' all the way to 20' prints
     
  13. cdiesel

    cdiesel Very Active Member

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    Jan 28, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    While people use the Big Squeegee with much success, it is not a replacement for a proper laminator. It's great for laminating small prints if you don't want to re-web your laminator, but I'd recommend getting a real laminator ASAP.
     
  14. john1

    john1 Guest

    I don't know Chris, Maybe cause im small time but it's working great for me here. Going on 3 plus years
     
  15. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Once you use a real laminator, you'll slap yourself for not getting one sooner..
    the BS is cool and all, but not a real lam.
     
  16. john1

    john1 Guest

    I have used a daige quickmount at a partners local print shop and honestly it's not all that different to me. Maybe i'm just used to the BS but it works great for me.

    If your doing wraps all day i am sure a laminator would be better but i'm not.
     
  17. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    Jan 12, 2008
    I don't see how you could laminate something this big with a BS this print is only 16'

     

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  18. mopar691

    mopar691 Member

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    Sep 15, 2010
    Its all in the size of the table or pushing 8' then pulling material to other side of table and pushing the remainder.

    The BS requires a true flat and large table. if your pushing 54" wide prints your table needs to be at least that wide.

    They do work great on smaller things and are fast but they do not replace a laminator. I think I now have 4 or so of them floating around here.
     
  19. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    Jan 12, 2008
    Plus one on this also in versaworks never use center on material always use a x and y position and use a value you can remember like 1" or 1.5" on longer runs because the starting point is important for the print/cut alignment.

    If you do choose center on the material, do not hit "get media width" after printing/laminating/reloading just goto cut only and send.



     
  20. john1

    john1 Guest

    ive done up to 20' ones....
     
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