Best Outdoor Vinyl

[702displays]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I'm wondering what people are using for outdoor printed vinyl mounted to dibond or aluminum. I always fear that it's going to start pealing on the edges so I try to use something aggressive. Let me know what's working good for you.
Thanks!

 

[Gino]

That's a loaded question. There are many vinyls which will last long, but according to bleeds, your inks, direction of planted sign and abilities of applying panels...... the quality might not be the culprit.

 

[702displays]

I'm using a Roland Eco Solvent printer in Las Vegas (so tons of sun) but most signs aren't directly in the light but the heat is over 110 degrees a lot. Most the signs I do are full bleed.

 

[Gino]

Are you using a laminate ?? If so, does it match the vinyl ?? What vinyl are you using presently ?? Are the edges a light color, dark color..... wha ?? How are you cleaning the substrates ?? How ?? OEM inks or 3rd party ??

On a different note, if your edges aren't peeling now, why are you worried about it ??

 

[702displays]

Are you using a laminate ?? If so, does it match the vinyl ?? What vinyl are you using presently ?? Are the edges a light color, dark color..... wha ?? How are you cleaning the substrates ?? How ?? OEM inks or 3rd party ??

On a different note, if your edges aren't peeling now, why are you worried about it ??

I'm using a cast laminate for outdoor signs, some of the edges are dark color, I clean the substrates with a alcohol (70%), OEM inks and I've had customers complain about vinyl peeling on the edges before and sometimes they'll peel when the packaging catches it. Not often, just curious what people are using. Overall I think I get pretty good results with 3M IJ35 vinyl and cast laminate for outdoors and seeing if anyone suggests something better.

 

[Johnny Best]

Don't bring it all the way to the edge. Give yourself an 1/8" border around the entire board.
I use 3951RA with 290 mat laminate and it holds up well.

 

[ikarasu]

IJ35 is a calendared... you shouldn't use it with a cast overlam. Calendared should be paired with Calendared, and Cast with Cast. Cast stretches, while calendared doesn't...so mixing and matching will make them stretch/curl at different rates and sometimes causes more problems than just using a calendared would.

I'd guess it's more to do with offgassing. Do you laminate right away, or let it sit for 24/48 hours? Peeling is likely because the gases in the ink is evaporating, and it's lifting the edges.

We use Signmax with IJ35 and it works great. We've never had a peeling issue. A lot of our stuff is full edge prints and really saturatred also. Stuff with full edge print, and a lot of ink... we usually let offgas for 30-48 hours minimum, and make sure the roll is pretty loose.

 

[702displays]

IJ35 is a calendared... you shouldn't use it with a cast overlam. Calendared should be paired with Calendared, and Cast with Cast. Cast stretches, while calendared doesn't...so mixing and matching will make them stretch/curl at different rates and sometimes causes more problems than just using a calendared would.

I'd guess it's more to do with offgassing. Do you laminate right away, or let it sit for 24/48 hours? Peeling is likely because the gases in the ink is evaporating, and it's lifting the edges.

We use Signmax with IJ35 and it works great. We've never had a peeling issue. A lot of our stuff is full edge prints and really saturatred also. Stuff with full edge print, and a lot of ink... we usually let offgas for 30-48 hours minimum, and make sure the roll is pretty loose.

Thanks for this input! I haven't really worried about prints needing to offgas since I went from solvent ink to ecosolvent ink. Is this still an issue. I do laminate within an hour of the print being finished most of the time. I don't think I'd be able to wait that long. Who makes Signmax laminate? Thanks again.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I am loving all of the Hexis medias right now!! I use the HX200 with their cast laminate, which works awesome!! But I will admit that for outdoor signs, I will use Primer94 on the edges. I have been doing that for a while.

 

[Gino]

I am loving all of the Hexis medias right now!! I use the HX200 with their cast laminate, which works awesome!! But I will admit that for outdoor signs, I will use Primer94 on the edges. I have been doing that for a while.

Very seldom do we have the curling or peeling, but when we do, it always seems to be with a very dark edge. Generally, we just wrap the laminate over and around to the back, but that's not always possible. Do you know if Primer 94 will work with other manufacturers like OraCal ??

 

[ikarasu]

Thanks for this input! I haven't really worried about prints needing to offgas since I went from solvent ink to ecosolvent ink. Is this still an issue. I do laminate within an hour of the print being finished most of the time. I don't think I'd be able to wait that long. Who makes Signmax laminate? Thanks again.

Yes, it's still an issue. Every ink type/printer has different recommended times... I'd google your ink + offgass time, or look up your printer model.

We use eco-solvent also... And we're advised to wait 4-8 hours before laminating. Thats in perfect conditions... if your roll is wound up tightly from the take up reel...It's going to take twice that long.

We don't always wait, sometimes it's not possible with rush jobs. But generally if your media is curling/lifting, offgassing is one of the steps you should try to fix it. Especially if you're laminating within the hour, and it's an edge to edge print.. I'd wait at least half a day minimum to offgas.

Signmax is the brand name - It might be something a local company makes, as I can't find anyone else selling it but them. You can use any calendared overlam, we just use signmax because out of all brands we tried (Avery and 3M) We found it to be the glossiest for it's price point, and we've never had an issue with it.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Very seldom do we have the curling or peeling, but when we do, it always seems to be with a very dark edge. Generally, we just wrap the laminate over and around to the back, but that's not always possible. Do you know if Primer 94 will work with other manufacturers like OraCal ??

It will not work with Orafol products and I'd be very leery of using it with any manufacturer other than 3M for that reason.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Don't bring it all the way to the edge. Give yourself an 1/8" border around the entire board.
I use 3951RA with 290 mat laminate and it holds up well.

Same material we use in our shop, also with great success. If one can't leave an 1/8" border around the board, I'd suggest 1/8" or 1/4" plastic trim cap around the perimeter. Grimco can special order it from Nudo, or you can get similar trim caps through Outwater Plastics.

 

[Gino]

That's kinda what I thought. I thought it was too good to be true.

 

[Active Sign]

Give the prints at least a 6 hours minimum to off gas on a loosely wound roll especially if you are running full bleed. As far as I know the only outdoor prints/inks that can be laminated immediately are printed on a latex machine.

We run 3M IJ35c with Arlon 3420 laminate all day. Been using the combo for about 4 years now with no complaints.

If you want hi-tac print vinyl, get you some Arlon dpf 8000 and hit the edges with a heat gun once mounted. Now that’s permanent!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Very seldom do we have the curling or peeling, but when we do, it always seems to be with a very dark edge. Generally, we just wrap the laminate over and around to the back, but that's not always possible. Do you know if Primer 94 will work with other manufacturers like OraCal ??

Not sure about Orafol, but on a piece I tested with Hexis, the edges where I used Primer94 did NOT want to come off! They left all of the glue when they did.

I did notice though when applying the vinyl, it doesn't grab instantly like when using 3M vinyl.

 

[unclebun]

We couldn't stop IJ35 from wanting to curl up at the edges so we switched to General Formulations IM3203X years ago and have had no trouble since. We laminate with Grimco's Briteline Shield UV. One thing that is important on full bleeds is to sand the edge of the aluminum, especially after cuts to get rid of any ridges or raised material from the cut.

 

[702displays]

Give the prints at least a 6 hours minimum to off gas on a loosely wound roll especially if you are running full bleed. As far as I know the only outdoor prints/inks that can be laminated immediately are printed on a latex machine.

We run 3M IJ35c with Arlon 3420 laminate all day. Been using the combo for about 4 years now with no complaints.

If you want hi-tac print vinyl, get you some Arlon dpf 8000 and hit the edges with a heat gun once mounted. Now that’s permanent!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think I need to remember to offgas, I haven't been doing that. It sounds like the 3MIJ35c that I'm using is pretty popular. I found some decent Briteline calendered UV laminate that I'm going to try out instead of the cast laminate for outdoor signs. Yes the Arlon 8000 is super aggressive. Grimco told me to use the 3MIJ39 in place of the Arlon for aggressive vinyl. Has anyone used this?

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Same material we use in our shop, also with great success. If one can't leave an 1/8" border around the board, I'd suggest 1/8" or 1/4" plastic trim cap around the perimeter. Grimco can special order it from Nudo, or you can get similar trim caps through Outwater Plastics.

Or wrap the edges.

 

[TomK]

We couldn't stop IJ35 from wanting to curl up at the edges so we switched to General Formulations IM3203X years ago and have had no trouble since. We laminate with Grimco's Briteline Shield UV. One thing that is important on full bleeds is to sand the edge of the aluminum, especially after cuts to get rid of any ridges or raised material from the cut.

The im3203x is a grimco house brand, not sure who the OEM is, is it general formulations?