Opinion Buying A Flatbed Printer

[bigben]

So I'm doing my homework to buy a new flatbed printer. So far, I have few contender. To give you an idea of what I will do with it, here is a short list:

• 40% will be for printing on coroplast
• 10% will be for printing on aluminium composite
• 25% will be for printing on acrylic (so need white ink)
• 25% will be for printing on rolled material, but mostly phototex.

My main sales are for interior products, so quality is a big factor over the speed. Having clear ink would be a plus value for certain effects, but it's not a ''must have''. Some of the printer don't have the roll-to-roll feature, but with a 10ft long table it will be enough for me to print one panel at a time.

The list:

• Mimaki JFX200-2531: entery-level printer. It's the slowest on the list, but also the cheapest and have the clear ink option. For the quality, it seems ok, but I did not try my own files yet. I've read somewhere that ink adhesion could be a problem for acrylic and aluminum composite.
• Vanguard VK300D: best print quality I've saw so far, great speed and I really like the rep (Jim). He helped me alot with all my question. I had a concern for service since I'm in Canada, but Jim assure me it won't be a problem. Don't have a roll-to-roll feature, don't have clear ink and the table is smaller than the other ones (5X10). So I can't have 2 4x8 at the same time, but it's the fastest printer on this list.
• Océ arizona 1260XT: The most expensive of the list, don't have the LED curing so I'm wondering if it's an old technology. Have the roll-to-roll option the other ones don't have, Option of clear ink. Print quality is very good and most of the guys in my area have a canon flatbed. So I think it saw well about the service.
• Agfa anapurna H2050i LED: I've just went to the graphic canada show and went to the Agfa booth. Seems a good and versatile printer. From what I read on the forum here, hybrid printer could be temperamental and have accuracy/registry problem. But having an hybrid printer would be a good thing for my roll material. Also the 12 pico litre drop is a concern for me for the print quality. I did not saw my own files printed for this one. It does not have the clear ink. Customer service seems to be great. Speed is also very good.

So here is my short list. What is your opinion and what I've forgot to check?

Thanks.

 

[lisa.erdner]

Have you considered EFI's Hybrid Flatbed / Roll-fed Printers? It offers standard four colors (CMYK) plus two white channels. It handles flexible and rigid substrates up to 65” (165 cm) wide and 2” (5.08 cm) thick and a maximum roll diameter of 9” (22.9 cm).

If you are interested, here is a link to the EFI H1625 Hybrid Flatbed: EFI H1625 LED Wide Format Printer

We will also be at ISA if you want to stop be and see the machine in person. We will be in booth 1332.

Good luck in your search!
Lisa Erdner
EFI - Pittsburgh

 

[bigben]

Have you considered EFI's Hybrid Flatbed / Roll-fed Printers? It offers standard four colors (CMYK) plus two white channels. It handles flexible and rigid substrates up to 65” (165 cm) wide and 2” (5.08 cm) thick and a maximum roll diameter of 9” (22.9 cm).

If you are interested, here is a link to the EFI H1625 Hybrid Flatbed: EFI H1625 LED Wide Format Printer

We will also be at ISA if you want to stop be and see the machine in person. We will be in booth 1332.

Good luck in your search!
Lisa Erdner
EFI - Pittsburgh

Yes, I've looked at it. Print quality wasn't good enough for me, white ink was not as opaque as the other one on my list and the two owners I've talked recommend me to buy something else.

 

[parrott]

All manufacturers/printers on that list are well known and established. Send your files to each company and have them printed on a comparable mode. The most important thing I can stress is to test adhesion on the products. It doesn't matter how good it looks if it doesn't stick. Adhesion may not be as demanding since most of your products are interior, but I would still put it as a top priority.

I don't know much about Vanguard, but I can speak for Jim as he is a great guy. He has been in this industry for a long time and really knows his stuff. He has sold for most of those companies and knows the ins and outs of probably all of those printers. He can give you real world pros/cons on the other printers vs his. I saw their booth out in Vegas and was very impressed...pretty sure they won an award. He is a straight shooter and will take good care of you.

Sounds like you are doing your due diligence and thats the most important part. Buy what fits best for your company.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Have you looked at the Jetrix LX8i? It looks like an amazing machine with incredible capabilities along with high quality printing. It's using the new Konica heads that can do I believe 4pl dot size at very high speeds.

The price is right in the middle of those options you have listed.

 

[ChrisN]

IMO, varnish (clear ink) is a waste of time.White ink can be used for practical purposes like printing on colored substrates, but varnish is solely decorative from what I can tell. I've also heard that it is even more of a pain to maintain than white ink.

Also, IMO, the Mimaki is not in the same level as the rest of the printers on your list. I'd categorize it as an entry-level printer, with the rest being a notch or three higher than that. The only thing it's got going for it is the large bed.

If you plan on a lot of roll printing, a printer with a roll feeder should be high on your list. Cutting vinyl into sheets gets to be a pain. We have a CET Q5-1000 flatbed (the 5'x10' model), and sometimes when I'm printing roll substrates I kind of wish we went with a hybrid. Most times, though, the advantages of a flatbed outweigh the cons.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Yes, I've looked at it. Print quality wasn't good enough for me, white ink was not as opaque as the other one on my list and the two owners I've talked recommend me to buy something else.

I've worked with both VUTEk's H2000 and GS3250 and they've been pretty amazing machines. They have a few quirks, like anything else, but they're work horses. As long as they're maintained, they're pretty reliable printers. As far as quality goes, they seem to be at least on par with competitors.

Just out of curiosity, what are you printing that requires high quality prints on coroplast? That seems a little counter intuitive.

 

[bigben]

Have you looked at the Jetrix LX8i? It looks like an amazing machine with incredible capabilities along with high quality printing. It's using the new Konica heads that can do I believe 4pl dot size at very high speeds.

The price is right in the middle of those options you have listed.

Never heard of Jetrix in the past. I've went to their website and the specifications seems right. I've sent them an email to know if they have a distributor here in canada. Did you or do you work with that brand of printer? If yes, can you give me some feedback?

IMO, varnish (clear ink) is a waste of time.White ink can be used for practical purposes like printing on colored substrates, but varnish is solely decorative from what I can tell. I've also heard that it is even more of a pain to maintain than white ink.

Also, IMO, the Mimaki is not in the same level as the rest of the printers on your list. I'd categorize it as an entry-level printer, with the rest being a notch or three higher than that. The only thing it's got going for it is the large bed.

If you plan on a lot of roll printing, a printer with a roll feeder should be high on your list. Cutting vinyl into sheets gets to be a pain. We have a CET Q5-1000 flatbed (the 5'x10' model), and sometimes when I'm printing roll substrates I kind of wish we went with a hybrid. Most times, though, the advantages of a flatbed outweigh the cons.

I understand your point for the varnish option. But since I'm making mostly interior signage and decoration it could be a good sell feature.

For the mimaki, I know it's not in the same category than the other one and I've mentioned it in my first post. I've just liked the price point and the fact it has the white and clear ink at the same time.

For the roll feature, yes it could be a good thing to have an hybrid printer or roll-to-roll option. Jim from vandguard send me a video to calculate the time between 2 prints and it would not be a big deal.

I've worked with both VUTEk's H2000 and GS3250 and they've been pretty amazing machines. They have a few quirks, like anything else, but they're work horses. As long as they're maintained, they're pretty reliable printers. As far as quality goes, they seem to be at least on par with competitors.

Just out of curiosity, what are you printing that requires high quality prints on coroplast? That seems a little counter intuitive.

The EFI H1625 LED is not really the same technology and more an entry level than the one you've mentioned. Anyway, I did not liked it.

I don't require high quality on coroplast. But the remaining 60% of my production require high quality. This is why it's primordial for me.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

The EFI H1625 LED is not really the same technology and more an entry level than the one you've mentioned. Anyway, I did not liked it.

I don't require high quality on coroplast. But the remaining 60% of my production require high quality. This is why it's primordial for me.

Makes sense. Not sure what your budget is, but check out swissQprint. They make some very high quality printers.

 

[bigben]

Makes sense. Not sure what your budget is, but check out swissQprint. They make some very high quality printers.

I've looked at the swissQprint. Great product, but out of my price range.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

We have been looking at flatbeds as of late to compliment our new cutter. We have been looking at all of our options. We want to see this Jetrix at the show but based on the info I was given thus far it's a strong contender next to the Oce.

 

[bigben]

We have been looking at flatbeds as of late to compliment our new cutter. We have been looking at all of our options. We want to see this Jetrix at the show but based on the info I was given thus far it's a strong contender next to the Oce.

Good. If you don't mind, can you give me your feedback after the show on the Jetrix? Also, I know Vanguard will be there, so I suggest you look at it. For now, they are on top of my list.

 

[NoMovingParts]

We've got an HP 500, roll-roll, white ink option & rolling input/output tables that flip up and can be stowed away.
It takes about 3-4 hours to swap to white ink setup when necessary, but it's really handy.
We do some color print on colored coro, so that had to be an option.

The quality is good and the speed isn't bad either.
The maintenance contract is pricey, but you'll want it - HP isn't my fave as far as customer service goes...

 

[bigben]

We've got an HP 500, roll-roll, white ink option & rolling input/output tables that flip up and can be stowed away.
It takes about 3-4 hours to swap to white ink setup when necessary, but it's really handy.
We do some color print on colored coro, so that had to be an option.

The quality is good and the speed isn't bad either.
The maintenance contract is pricey, but you'll want it - HP isn't my fave as far as customer service goes...

Thank you. We've tried the HP. It's an old technology and we did not like the print quality.

 

[bigben]

Does anyone could give me real world feedback on AGFA and mimaki printer?

I also tried to contact Jetrix to know if there where any dealer in Canada and never get a reply. Does anyone know how to contact them directly?

 

[tylercrum]

Just to throw my opinion out there. We have CET 126" hybrid and I freaking love it. We don't have the white ink, but I know it's an option. We just run cmyk, but you can run cmyk lc lm white and i believe a varnish/clear. We mostly run styrene faced foam boards, coro, acm, and roll materials. The quality's a whole lot better than I as anticipating for a flatbed uv printer, especially for how fast it runs. And it's field upgrade-able as far as adding more heads to speed it up, or adding white later if want. I also think they offer a clear/varnish or whatever but I'm not 100% sure 'cause we never looked into it.

 

[bigben]

Just to throw my opinion out there. We have CET 126" hybrid and I freaking love it. We don't have the white ink, but I know it's an option. We just run cmyk, but you can run cmyk lc lm white and i believe a varnish/clear. We mostly run styrene faced foam boards, coro, acm, and roll materials. The quality's a whole lot better than I as anticipating for a flatbed uv printer, especially for how fast it runs. And it's field upgrade-able as far as adding more heads to speed it up, or adding white later if want. I also think they offer a clear/varnish or whatever but I'm not 100% sure 'cause we never looked into it.

I'm in Contact with Jim that was for CET before and now for Vanguard. But CET was on my list at the beginning.

 

[particleman]

I'm surprised you're dismissing the HP so quickly. Older technology? Depends on your definition, It is built on several generations of printers and pretty refined. You could definitely say the same about the Agfa as far as "old technology". Did you try some of the higher quality print modes on the HP? I've never had an issue getting good prints off of it.

 

[bigben]

I'm surprised you're dismissing the HP so quickly. Older technology? Depends on your definition, It is built on several generations of printers and pretty refined. You could definitely say the same about the Agfa as far as "old technology". Did you try some of the higher quality print modes on the HP? I've never had an issue getting good prints off of it.

Yep. I've had the chance to play with a FB750 for about half a day. I wasn't impressed compared to Canon and Vanguard. HP was my first stop because I already use their latex printer. So the learning curve would be easier.

 

[particleman]

Just a few more random thoughts. As far as the Agfa I'm not particularly impressed with how their belt system works for starters. Just a quick glance it appears they use the same style they have for years. We used to to run an M4f the belt walks and it's a headache in general. At some point it has to be replaced because of ink build up. The HP for example is a locked belt that can't move. I'm not a fan of Agfa after our time with the m4f.

Owning a UV printer is a minefield and there are many many other things to consider other than quality. Absolutely be considering the warranty length, ink adhesion, quality vs speed, cost of print heads, cost of service contract and also the consumables. Agfa again was insanely expensive to buy lamps and parts in my opinion. They don't build their machines they make money as a service company.

You're in Canada I would be asking how many techs a company like Vanguard or Canon has available and how they service your area. Your machine will break at some point you would be shocked to see how many companies have a few techs overbooked to service half of the US. I can tell you Agfa and HP do have their act together as far as providing service.