Discussion Can I use brand logos on my design without permission (please read)

[mcngrafix]

Hi,

I make graphic kits for MX bikes and I only use logos what I have permission for or a licence but because my friend wants a graphics kit for his (KTM) mx bike could I use the KTM logo in the design? He would also like the redbull logo. Just as long as no money is made as obviously hes a good friend of mine. I have heard that companies such as KTM, Redbull, Monster Energy etc do not like people using their logo with out a licence but if no money is made its should be no problem should it?

It would be great for you answers

Thanks
Chris

 

[Gino]

I see nothing wrong at all in doing this. No money trades hands, then no foul. Why pay for something, if you're not gonna make any money ?? Whether you do a sloppy bang up job or a first class bumbling pool of sh!t, who cares ?? No money crossed anywhere. More business should be like this, where you make up the rules as you go and skirt around legal matters. Better yet, doing it twice for the same person makes it twice as legal to do. Killing two birds with stone is a great motto.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Still not legal. You're, at a minimum, getting the recognition as the guy who does graphics even if you won't do copyrighted logos for anyone else. That said, I'd do it anyway. I seriously doubt the Red Bull copyright police are going to come find you and beat you with a rubber hose.

 

[mcngrafix]

Still not legal. You're, at a minimum, getting the recognition as the guy who does graphics even if you won't do copyrighted logos for anyone else. That said, I'd do it anyway. I seriously doubt the Red Bull copyright police are going to come find you and beat you with a rubber hose.

Ok I know what you are saying but no money is involved at all so I dont see why not

 

[mcngrafix]

I see nothing wrong at all in doing this. No money trades hands, then no foul. Why pay for something, if you're not gonna make any money ?? Whether you do a sloppy bang up job or a first class bumbling pool of sh!t, who cares ?? No money crossed anywhere. More business should be like this, where you make up the rules as you go and skirt around legal matters. Better yet, doing it twice for the same person makes it twice as legal to do. Killing two birds with stone is a great motto.

Thanks

 

[Manevitch]

Still not legal. You're, at a minimum, getting the recognition as the guy who does graphics even if you won't do copyrighted logos for anyone else. That said, I'd do it anyway. I seriously doubt the Red Bull copyright police are going to come find you and beat you with a rubber hose.

This. Trademark and/or copyright infringement isn't determined by money changing hands or not; it's determined by economic loss to the trademark or copyright owner. If Red Bull licenses their logo for decals (they do) then they can make the case that you have caused economic loss to them, as well as unauthorized use of their logo.

That said, as "just some sign guy" I'd probably do it for a friend for free anyhow. Just don't use my brand without permission

 

[Joe House]

This? Again??

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I see nothing wrong at all in doing this. No money trades hands, then no foul. Why pay for something, if you're not gonna make any money ?? Whether you do a sloppy bang up job or a first class bumbling pool of sh!t, who cares ?? No money crossed anywhere. More business should be like this, where you make up the rules as you go and skirt around legal matters. Better yet, doing it twice for the same person makes it twice as legal to do. Killing two birds with stone is a great motto.

Thanks

Whoosh!

 

[bob]

Still not legal. You're, at a minimum, getting the recognition as the guy who does graphics even if you won't do copyrighted logos for anyone else...

This. Trademark and/or copyright infringement isn't determined by money changing hands or not; it's determined by economic loss to the trademark or copyright owner. If Red Bull licenses their logo for decals (they do) then they can make the case that you have caused economic loss to them, as well as unauthorized use of their logo

The very flavor of tortured reasoning that keeps untold numbers of scum-sucking layers employed. By this convoluted logic merely having a can of Red [or any other color] Bull in your hand could be proclaimed unauthorized usage.

 

[ikarasu]

Legal, no. Will you get in trouble? Probably not. All these companies hand out stickers with their logo, it's free advertising for them.

So long as you don't sell it, our act like they're sponsoring your friend, I see no difference between you printing and putting the sticker on, or you getting a free one and doing it , So long as youre not harming their brand.

That said.. shoot them an email. Tell them you want to print their logo and put it on your bike. Odds are they'll say go ahead. If not... Then you have your answer.

 

[mcngrafix]

This? Again??

? Totally different question

 

[heyskull]

Avoid doing KTM graphics at all costs read on......

About 5 years ago we were printing some race gear and clothing for a KTM dealer.
The issue was that KTM did not make the items he required.
Also the items were being used for publicising KTM and for KTMs official race team.
After about 3 months of supplying the dealer we received a letter from KTM Austria and in not so many words Insisted.
"We destroy all the items that were produced and the machinery it was manufactured with or face legal proceedings due to infringement of copyright"
I ended up having to contact KTM Austria and explain why these items, which had been seen by KTM Austria on the dealers website and facebook page had been created.
I explained that it was a bit harsh as these were not manufactured for the general public and only for the KTM dealer.
In the end they agreed to drop the case but we were no longer allowed to recreate their logo and would not give any permission or rights.

Be warned as KTM were going to destroy our business.

SC

 

[Manevitch]

The very flavor of tortured reasoning that keeps untold numbers of scum-sucking layers employed. By this convoluted logic merely having a can of Red [or any other color] Bull in your hand could be proclaimed unauthorized usage.

Only if the Red [or any other color] Bull you are drinking was not manufactured by Red [etc.] Bull. You can dislike it all you want but that's settled case law. Under what circumstances do you think brand infringement is acceptable, exactly? What if someone in your town opened a shop with an identical name to yours - would that be OK? What if he also used your logo?

 

[Gino]

I have no idea when stealing became an Okay thing to do ?? Stealing is stealing..... regardless of what transpires. Money changing hands, someone getting a favor or whatever..... if you take something which is not yours, it's stealing. How frickin' dumb can you people be ??

Oh, I'd like that loaf of bread and seeings how I'm hungry, I'm just gonna take it. No money passed anyone's palms, so it should be alright, huh ??


Thing is.... everyone around this place in the last 10 months seems to think differently and wanna change the rules of stealing. So, 100 people can't be wrong if they all agree, huh ??

 

[bob]

Only if the Red [or any other color] Bull you are drinking was not manufactured by Red [etc.] Bull. You can dislike it all you want but that's settled case law. Under what circumstances do you think brand infringement is acceptable, exactly? What if someone in your town opened a shop with an identical name to yours - would that be OK? What if he also used your logo?

Since I reject almost all manifestations of 'intellectual property' the circumstances which you ponder are: almost any.

What if? If? If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. The material implication, a formal deductive construct, commonly seen as a statement in the form 'If A then B" or, the even more vacuous, 'If A then...' can be valid but when used id debate it's most often fallacious. As it is in this case.Try again.

 

[eahicks]

So your friend rides professionally or on his daddy's land? If he's a pro, and an actual Red Bull rep is at the event, and sees the Red Bull logo on his bike.....he may ask " I don't remember sponsoring you....why is our logo on your bike?"

 

[Billct2]

There's a story in one of the sign magazines that shows up at the shop that had a wrap with a bunch of copyrighted/trademarked artwork on it, and right in the article it said it didn't require permission because it was done as a personal project, not for sale. I was going to question them but got busy with other stuff. Wish I hadn't tossed it.

 

[Joe House]

? Totally different question

Actually the whole "using copyrighted or trademarked artwork without permission from the owner" question has been hashed out before. This isn't much different than your previous post:
There are about 10 pages in my search for the word trademark. And no, it's not a totally different question.
This is really a question you should ask a lawyer, not a bunch of artists. If you want to risk your business on some internet opinions, go ahead. No one on this thread will be named in the lawsuit. Also, most of the opinions are coming from the US of A. What do we know about laws in the Commonwealth of England?

 

[Gino]

Actually the whole "using copyrighted or trademarked artwork without permission from the owner" question has been hashed out before. This isn't much different than your previous post:
There are about 10 pages in my search for the word trademark. And no, it's not a totally different question.
This is really a question you should ask a lawyer, not a bunch of artists. If you want to risk your business on some internet opinions, go ahead. No one on this thread will be named in the lawsuit. Also, most of the opinions are coming from the US of A. What do we know about laws in the Commonwealth of England?

Good catch. I didn't realize it was the same person, but something seemed familiar.

 

[Johnny Best]

Don't think England has been a commonwealth for a long time. Something to do with Cromwell, but I could be mistaken.
It is considered a constitutional monarchy.
I say don't print the logos as others have suggested, the Queen will bitchslap you for your punishment.