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Can someone please tell me what I am doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Vehicle Wraps' started by Doyle, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    This is the job from hell that will not go away. The fender/wheel well areas on this van have been giving me trouble. There is a recessed area about 1/2" or so deep and I CANNOT get my material to stay put in these areas. It keeps popping back up in the form of bubbles, some small, some very large.

    I have tried many things to fix this. To start with, the material we used for the van was orajet 3551ra. I know this was probably not the best choice of material for this job, but we have used it on similar jobs many times without any trouble. After these areas of vinyl kept popping back up, the first thing I tried was adhesive primer in these areas and replaced the graphic. This did not work, the same problem was occuring. Next, I tried reprinting these panels with Orajet 3951ra and thought for sure that this was the problem. I removed the failed panels, removed all adhesive, cleaned with rapid tac (we use this as a cleaner, but wipe it all away, applied dry), then prepped the area with isopropyl alcohol. The surface was cleaned very well, free of any oils or contaminates.

    I reapplied these panels AGAIN. I went over the recesses lightly, waiting until I was finished to go back and sink the vinyl into the grooves. I heated the vinyl, and slowly worked the vinyl into the groove, about 1/8" at a time, working the air towards one end so it could escape. Everything looked great, the vinyl was holding down into these areas perfectly, until I came back to the shop this morning to see they had all started popping back out again. By this time I was furious and I started heating it up again and repeating the process of working the vinyl into the recess, but it didn't seem to adhere as well this time. And in some areas, I actually noticed moisture escaping the bubbled areas through the small holes I pierced to release the air. I cannot figure out where this moisture would have come from, since there were no open areas at the edges of the vinyl to even let water in, so I am really confused now.

    After going back over everything again, it looks like a lost cause. The vinyl is still not staying in the grooves, and now the areas I have heated up are starting to show fading from the heat. I would appreciate any pointers that anyone has for me because I am at my wits end with this van and I just want this job to go away, even if it means reprinting these pieces again, I just need to figure out where I am going wrong. Thanks in advance!

    :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
     

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  2. the graphics co

    the graphics co Active Member

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    You cannot heat and sink the vinyl no matter the speed at which you do it. you need to roll/work the vinyl into and out of the recessed area or it will never stay, even with primer.
     
  3. the graphics co

    the graphics co Active Member

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    also, if you are using primer 94 with oracal that is a no-no. apparently the primer 94 has a reaction with oracal adhesive which causes it to fail.
     
  4. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    Well the primer was my previous attempt, didn't use it this time around. I did try working the vinyl into the area without using heat, but that only goes so far then I needed it to stretch a bit and that is when I applied heat. And the print was sitting down into the groove without using much heat at all, then after 24 hours it started coming back out.

    Should I attempt again without using heat at all? Thanks for the reply!
     
  5. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    Yep, most likely over-stretching. Best tool for that type of contour is a V-cat roller. That, along with the right heat and a little better job of getting as much of the unstretched material into that recess before heating will make a HUGE difference.
     
  6. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    3551RA is NOT a cast product, and is mainly intended to act like a cast on flat/simple curved surfaces.
    (supercalendared or high performance calendared, i believe, is the term they use for it.... its still calendared)

    if you try to heat/stretch into contours, it WILL try to return to its original shape.

    I bet you're using 210 overlam too, eh?
    use 3951RA with 290 overlam... if anything, maybe you can get away with trimming out the groove and tiling in a fresh stripe of 3551? overlapped vinyl might be better than ordering a roll of material just for the front fender.

    way out-there idea: maybe preapply some double-sided acrylic bonding tape to the groove and apply a new panel as you did before? the tape contours pretty well, with the backing removed, and could help the material resist tenting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  7. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    Good point, which lam did you use when you reprinted with the 3951??
     
  8. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    In my first post I specified that my subsequent attempts were using 3951ra, so this is cast film we are talking about. And 290 laminate was used for everything. Please don't give me the newb treatment, I have been in the biz for many years.
     
  9. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    And I don't mean to sound unappreciative of your advice, I appreciate it very much, I just know how much everyone on here lives to flame the newb hacks, just want to put it out there that I am not one of those characters.
     
  10. 2B

    2B Moderator

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    the escaping moisture is throwing me,

    is the work area climate controlled 24/7? could there be a high amount of humidity building up?

    how new is the paint job on the van? out-gassing may be an issue
     
  11. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    brand new van/paint. Installation was done in garage at ~70 degrees.
     
  12. 2B

    2B Moderator

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    Be willing to bet that is the reason, the paint is out-gassing.
     
  13. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    Hope you didn't think I was suggesting anything of this sort by asking what lam you used along with the 3951???
     
  14. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    No, not at all.... I guess I have seen some pretty ugly debates on this forum and I was probably a little quick to make that statement, my apologies...

    I was furious at this stupid van this morning... I wonder what my customer is thinking of me at this point. I have taken the van back from him twice now trying to rectify this issue. He is not the one complaining about it, I have told him that I am not happy with the results and I want to give it another go, but it still appears unprofessional. I guess I am lucky that he has been patient about it. I had to take the van back to him this morning because it was needed for a job, so I will be going to get it from him a third time.... ugh.

    Anyway, thanks you for the advice. I think what I will do (even though I was avoiding it at all costs) is trim out the groove and replace with strips of the 3951. It will not look as clean as I'd like, but at least I won't have to worry about it.
     
  15. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Not trying to treat you like a noob, but you used the wrong material -- what did you expect? Stop being cheap and use the right stuff. Sorry for being blunt

    You need to use 3751RA wiht 290 lam, and you won't have issues with that. Don't use 3M primer - it sucks and messes with oracals adhesive.

    Instead of bridging and the heating in, work it into the groove with as little stretch as possible.
     
  16. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    Not sure how many times I need to say the same thing, but I am using 3951ra. My initial attempt was with 3551ra because that is what we used on all of the flat areas of the van, and ran into trouble on these fenders. That is the point in which I reprinted these panels on 3951ra. :signs101:
     
  17. CheapVehicleWrap

    CheapVehicleWrap Very Active Member

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    Here's what we do. Tent the vinyl over the curve, match on the other side. BAM! custom van without factory grooves.
     
  18. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    I like this, CheapVehicleWrap. Please tell me more. Could we just bondo over the recessed areas as well? Or hot glue? I think you are on to something.....
     
  19. mopar691

    mopar691 Member

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    Bondo and hot glue to expensive.

    We like to use the backing paper off the wrap so we get the most bang for our buck here. Just keep folding it up till the void is semi flush.
     
  20. CheapVehicleWrap

    CheapVehicleWrap Very Active Member

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    Unnecessary. We just let it free float. Tell the customer it prevents dents too as it just springs back when hit. We do everything possible to insure the wrap looks good for at least as long as you can see the taillights of the vehicle leaving the driveway.
     
  21. aaronJREgraphics

    aaronJREgraphics Member

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    PRIMER 94 PRIMER94 PRIMER94 and heat and roll youll have to work it shouldnt be a problem tho.
     
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