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CG-160fx crop detect not working, gives me ERR36 MARKdetect

Discussion in 'Mimaki' started by Esmae, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. Esmae

    Esmae Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster. Hopefully someone can help me, i'm getting desperate.

    Upgraded our little old sp-300 roland to a Mimaki package consisting of a JV33 160 and CG-160FX. I bought this package second hand so i expected some teething problems by not having a dealer set it up for me, i just didn't expect it to be this bad.

    I have created the file in corel, i've used the star example, below is a list of my proceedings

    Create star 100mm square fill with colour
    Finecut toolbar - Frame extract +2mm
    create rectangle outside star (leave plenty of space around it) for register marks, keeping the rectangle selected.
    Finecut toolbar - register mark creation 10mm, .4mm, type 1.
    Finecut toolbar - Plot
    In finecut plugin - register mark tab - detect mark then hit plot
    (I have already setup the plotter, from local i jog then hit remote to start the pointer i place it in the area specified, hit enter then remote again.)
    Plot menu - plotter condition selected - hit plot.
    Plotter starts detecting first mark. (i know it is on it) then moves away a fraction and comes up with 'ERR36 MARKdetect' for the 700th bloody time Grrrr.

    I've eliminated
    pinch roller problem
    lighting (have tried it day and night)
    crop mark detection is on at the plotter

    I'll try some different sized reg marks

    I've performed the plotter self test for reg marks and it was all good, read the bits of the manual that relate to this, i just don't know what else to do, can somebody please help me before i go postal. Thanks in advance
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
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  2. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

    Nov 29, 2003
    Kahului, Maui

    first, it wouldn't hurt (in my opinion) to write more detailed descriptions of EVERYTHING with no shorthand... spelling out every step you take, and remembering that other people with a Mimaki may use different software, but also may be able to help.. your post seems fairly clear, but not absolutely 100% clear & nothing I hate more then wasting time responding to some assumption I had to make, only to find out the guy I'm trying to help, wasted less time typing then i did, & as a result had me giving him useless info... but I digress...

    it sounds like all the work so far is from the cutter control panel & not the software, correct? And among your menu choices, the "Mark Detect" choice is already set to "on" correct? well, one simple thing, but one that i forgot once after an employee ran mine for a year & then I had to run it and forgot that 2 of the the pinch rollers need to be outside the registration marks... so check for that. Also, on wide format stuff I may use all 4 rollers, but when I don't, I think my set-up tech said the unused rollers should be pushed all the way to the left (though I think we quit doing that & it had no effect)..

    last thought, sometimes the lighting in my shop reflects off the vinyl, & fouls up the mark detection, so when mine gives me a hard time, I sometimes turn off the lights, which seems to help sometimes
  3. Rooster

    Rooster Very Active Member

    Feb 22, 2008
    Does the software work with multiple size reg marks?

    If so are you using the correct size marks on your artwork?

    I ran into the same deal with my summa cutter/JV33/wasatch RIP combo. I had the right marks, but the wrong setting in the rip to recognize my size marks as the cutter could recognize a few different types and sizes.
  4. Esmae

    Esmae Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    Thanks but neither of those appear to be the problem, i just whipped down and tried them.
    sorry i didn't write down all my settings at the software and the machine, i figured i had given a good enough description, if i think of anything else i'll add it to the OP.

    i've matched the reg mark requirements at the machine to the software output, so i've eliminated that. but i could try changing the size of the crop marks down to maybe 5mm and relay those settings in the plotter also and try that.

    I'm getting ready to go to a wedding so won't be able to check till the morning, i'll update as soon as i try that
  5. ddubia

    ddubia Member

    Sep 13, 2006
    Northeast Ohio
    1.Set up your cutter acording the manual (pages 3.17 - 3.43) I am not at work right now so don't have access to my machine and don't remember all the settings as it was a long time ago I set it up. I'd have to refer to the manual to get those settings. I have looked to the manual a little here but to be comfortable giving you those settings I'd have to be in front of the machine. The manual can be a bit confusing to me all by itself.

    In truth, it would be better if you did that yourself as it would give you a greater understanding of your machine which is what you are after in your questions anyway. I do however remember a setting that is different than you mention and it is that I use a [TYPE 2] (10mm, .4mm, type 2) mark. Also, the detection points setting on your plotter is [1PT] when using FineCut.

    2. In your illustration program, I use Illustrator CS2 and you're using CorelDraw but that shouldn't matter. Create your star and fill it with the color of your choice.

    3. I noted in your post that you chose to use "FrameExtract" to put a 2mm border around your star. When you did that a new layer should have been added to your layers palette called "FC Frame Layer". It also should have been automatically set to non-printing so it doesn't show up on your print. I always check this anyway because I'm anal like that.

    If you'd rather not have a white border around your star, (FrameExtract), but instead choose to have the color run all the way to the cut edge of it then you'll have to add some bleed around the star to avoid having any white showing anywhere around the edges of your star after it is cut. This can happen due to the fact that no cut is absolutely perfect. To avoid this add a stroke of the fill color around the star. A 3pt.stroke should be enough.

    A stroke in Illustrator is a path with color to each side of the path. Half of that will merge with the fill and the other half will fall outside of the fill. The cutter will cut the path and that extra 1.5pt of color outside of the path, outside of the star, will ensure that no white shows anywhere around the edges of your final piece. I'm assuming a stroke works the same in CorelDraw.

    4. Create your rectangle around your star.

    5. Leaving the rectangle selected, in the FineCut toolbar click the registration mark creation button. Choose the 10mm, 4mm, Type 2. That is the one that looks like the corners of a box around your star with the open side of the corners facing toward your star. Others may use a Type 1 registration mark but I never have as the Type 2 works well for me. I also choose to check the "Leave a rectangle as a cutting line". This cuts your rectangle. It can make for easier weeding on some jobs. I never check the "add the pattern information" as that is for a different plotter.

    6. The result of this, (in Illustrator which is my experience), is that the registration marks are placed around your image, your original rectangle is still intact and a new Layer is created in your layers palette. The registration marks are on your original layer so they will print and your rectangle is placed on a new layer called "FC Frame". If you have previously used the FrameExtract option, as you did in your post, then you will now have 2 "FC Frame" layers. I would make sure both are set to not print.

    7. Save and print your file.

    8. Take your print from the printer. I usually trim off any excess material from the length leaving the width as is. I leave about 2" beyond the printed registration marks on each end. You can do with less but my straight edge is 2" and I just lay one side of it against the marks and cut along the other side. I'm lazy and that's easy.

    9. Line up your print in the plotter. I do this by eyeballing the marks with the first or second grove in the platen, (I forget which not seeing it but it's pretty close to lining up with the pointer dot when it's on), and start from there. I set my pinch rollers so that they are as far away from the registration marks as possible to avoid then being in the way of mark detection, but still plenty on the material for best tracking.

    Then, while the pinch rollers are in the up position turn on the pointer and line up the pointer dot so that it splits the horizontal line of the right-most mark and masking tape that end to the platen. Then, I manually move the carriage to the other side and line it up the same and tape that down. Once again move the carriage to the first mark and check that it is still in place. Remove the tape and adjust if needed then re-tape it down. If these movements were great because the material was awfully crooked from the start I may go back and check the left mark again. I'm anal like that too. Lock down the pinch rollers.

    10. Choose roll or leaf and wait for [TP1]. Using the jog keys place the pointer dot in the specified area of the mark and hit the [ENTER] key. It should find that first mark just fine. That first mark is all it needs. It doesn't have to go around to locate the other three marks. It will do that later when you go back to your computer and command it to plot from FineCut.

    11. Check to be sure your tool setting are correct for your material and hit "Remote".

    It doesn't always work right...

    The biggest issue I have is that my printer, (HP 8000), prints a color stripe at the end of each print head travel along the length of the print. It does this to make sure that all color heads are printing to avoid any of them from drying out on long runs. The color stripe is located pretty close to the actual print and in my case it gets in the way of mark detection there on the right side. I can adjust the placement of the color stripe farther away from the print but that would limit the width I can print so I leave it where it is. (On occasion I will turn off the color stripe to gain a wider print when necessary but generally leave it on).

    Instead of moving the stripe I use a work-around which is simply loading the material so that the color stripe is on the left side of the plotter away from the initial mark detection side. This means that I am loading it backwards from the direction of my file, so from Illustrator I have to rotate my file 180 degrees before plotting it. (If anyone has a cure for this I'd be more than glad to hear it)

    That is a minimum of energy expenditure and it doesn't matter to me or the plotter or FineCut which way it runs. Just like it doesn't matter if I'm cutting a letter B or a R. Cutting upside down is the same as cutting right side up except that it is upside down. In my genius I've found that if I turn it over when it's done it still looks right. ;-)

    Other issues are covered in the manuals which can be badly printed or damaged material or marks, wrong marks, lighting issues, printing too close to the marks, or a plethora other concerns which can only be determined upon inspection of the material, the printing, the software settings, the plotter settings, environmental concerns or other issues which can only be solved by experimentation, trial and error.

    12. To plot after the mark has been detected go back to Corel and hit the FineCut plot button. Uncheck any colors you don't want to cut. Click the "Register Mark" tab, then click the "Detect Mark" button. This shrinks the file down to fit the screen as it snaps to the register marks and changes the non-cutting area to a purple color background.

    13. Be sure that there are no warning triangles showing at your "Sheet" or "Plot" buttons. If there are warnings there find the problem and fix that first. If not, then hit Plot.

    14. In the Plot dialog box I have the "Custom" radio button checked. Insure that you have the correct CT tool selected and that the "Speed", "Pressure" and "Offset" setting are correct. If all is well, put on your protective helmet and goggles then click the "Plot" button.

    I surely hope I didn't leave anything out or add something that came to me in a dream but does not coincide with reality. If something I said is not clear PM me for clarification. I'm not on here every single day but never miss more than one day.

    If you did not get manuals with your purchase I can send them via email as .pdf files. Just let me know.
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  6. Esmae

    Esmae Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    You Sir, are a Legend, thank you very much. I was just going straight to jog from clamping the sheet and then trying to find the rego marks. So by bypassing the initial self check it mustn't calibrate itself or something like that. And thank you for such an epic post, i had no doubt that some part of your reply would be the answer. And thank you too Rooster and iSign.
    Man i love forums!!
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