CNC Routers: If you had to pick ...

[Nicholedene]

I'm in the research phase of purchasing a new CNC Router for a small signshop. We currently do offer carved/dimensional signage, but to-date what we can do has been very limited due to the fact that we farm our CNC work out to another local shop with a beautiful, but ancient, Gerber Saber 4x10. I'm not sure if it's the router/software itself or the operator that has limited our capacity so far. All I know is that I'm getting tired of hearing "you can't do that," when I can see right there in the magazines and on the forums that it's being done in other shops. So here we are. Money is definitely a factor (as it always is!), but I will find a way to make it work for the right machine. The big question I have is whether it makes the most sense to buy a "budget" model to fit my needs, or whether I'm going to be kicking myself for that decision 2 years from now. I've whittled things down to two options: The Shopbot PRSAlpha 120-60 for the budget option, and the AXYZ 4010 for the higher-end model. I intend to go with the vacuum hold down as well as the automatic tool changer on whichever of these machines I end up buying (perhaps those add-ons will make the difference with the lower end model?) Can anyone provide me input, relevant experiences, insight? I'd appreciate it.

Nichole

 

[Gino]

Out of curiosity..... how much of your present work does the CNC machine projects represent ??

 

[Nicholedene]

Cnc

Good question. At this point, it's very limited. I find the process of working with an outside contractor cumbersome, and often what I ask for isn't what I end up getting back. For that reason I do shy away from dimensional work at times. I'd say on average 1-2 CNC signs a month.

 

[SebastienL]

You should consider the software and training also with your purchase. You say the shop where you have your work done currently keeps telling you they can't do this or that. Imo, that's operator ineptitude, but YOUR understanding of the software, the training you received on it, will determine what you can and cannot do. Cutting basic shapes or text is relatively easy, but it's quite a steep learning curve if you want to get in "3D" stuff.

Multicam is also a very good option.

Good luck!

 

[fixtureman]

I have a Shopbot and it does everything that I throw at it. You do get real good support and their forum is top notch. Also it comes with a very good software package that can be upgraded Today Shopbot is having a free training if you go to the shopbot forum.

 

[Graphic Destruction]

I'm a big shopbot fan. They are affordable, bullet proof and far more machine than a sign shop needs honestly.

The last shop I worked for, we picked up a used 5x12 Alpha, the price was too good to pass up, but we didn't need 5x12. Most of our cutting was done in a 4x4 area and maybe 20% in the 4x8 area. I never once needed the full 5x12.

Take a good hard look at a Shopbot buddy. Start out at 4x4 and cheaply add power sticks to increase to 8' (or more) if needed. I wouldn't bother with an Alpha, you don't need a spindle for sign work. They run on 3 phase power and use a ton of it. A standard router uses 110 and has more power than you need for sign materials. The buddy is also on wheels to move out of the way when not in use.

The biggest thing as mentioned is the software for 3D work. Shopbot pushes Aspire and it's just fine. They also have excellent tech support and a great forum where you can get help quickly. The vacuum hold down is nice, not going to lie, but again, a power hog. That can added later. Tool changer? Sure, nice to have, not needed, put that money into software and training. You're just not changing tools that often to warrant the cost.

Multicam's are beautiful machines, no doubt, but I can't justify the price tag for a small shop doing some dimensional work.

 

[fixtureman]

I have a 2.2kw spindle on the one I have now my old one had a router and I would never go back to the router. As for the spindle you can run it off 220 volt single phase with the right VFD and it doesn't use any more electric then the router.

 

[artbot]

best ROI and resale value goes to used shopbot. get on talkshopbot.com have your money ready because they sell pretty fast, used. still using my 25 year old shopbot. simple build, tons of support. sign shops just don't need to pay for that extra thousandth of an inch tolerance.

 

[player]

I would get a Limac CNC. Solid iron, rigid, accurate. Very cost effective.

http://www.limac.cc/

 

[PushProductions]

We have a Industrial CNC. I was skeptical when my boss bought. Me being the production guy i was scared i was going to be manning a POS. But its been about a year and a half now and i cut with it a few times a week and i have to say it has been great! We have the artisan 408 4x8. Its a great machine. We bought a show floor model and think we were out the door just over 12k.

 

[Gene@mpls]

best ROI and resale value goes to used shopbot. get on talkshopbot.com have your money ready because they sell pretty fast, used. still using my 25 year old shopbot. simple build, tons of support. sign shops just don't need to pay for that extra thousandth of an inch tolerance.

Allan knows of what he speaks! +2[or3] for shopbot. Gene

 

[JJM7288]

Buy all the machine you can afford, it is amazing how much of what you do originates there.

 

[SignProPlus-Alex]

We have a Industrial CNC. I was skeptical when my boss bought. Me being the production guy i was scared i was going to be manning a POS. But its been about a year and a half now and i cut with it a few times a week and i have to say it has been great! We have the artisan 408 4x8. Its a great machine. We bought a show floor model and think we were out the door just over 12k.

Last weekend I was helping other sign company to setup there Industrial cnc. What a piece of C''''P.
1 - Z axis when jogging down it ripped water hose from a spindle. During assembly someone warped hoses and cables around stepper.
2- Y axis and limit switches wires was miss labeled and assembled accordingly. So no movement in Y
3 - A motor rotates 1 full turn in opposite direction before moving in desire direction.
4 - reduction gears made out of nylon looking plastic. I think they are made that way in case you hit something they will strip without damaging mechanics of the cnc. I don't know how I feel about that
5 - mach3 config file is a mess motors have different step count on gentry.
My opinion is just my opinion but from the look of it industrial cnc was not tested before it was sold. All components and assembly methods screaming cheap Chinese parts and labor.
luck of accessories. No touch plate or sensor. Company rep recommended to use top of the material to re-zero every time.

 

[PushProductions]

Last weekend I was helping other sign company to setup there Industrial cnc. What a piece of C''''P.
1 - Z axis when jogging down it ripped water hose from a spindle. During assembly someone warped hoses and cables around stepper.
2- Y axis and limit switches wires was miss labeled and assembled accordingly. So no movement in Y
3 - A motor rotates 1 full turn in opposite direction before moving in desire direction.
4 - reduction gears made out of nylon looking plastic. I think they are made that way in case you hit something they will strip without damaging mechanics of the cnc. I don't know how I feel about that
5 - mach3 config file is a mess motors have different step count on gentry.
My opinion is just my opinion but from the look of it industrial cnc was not tested before it was sold. All components and assembly methods screaming cheap Chinese parts and labor.
luck of accessories. No touch plate or sensor. Company rep recommended to use top of the material to re-zero every time.

Yea, when it came to setting it up the first time it was a nightmare! Im new to all cnc stuff as of last year so i bet if i stepped on a nice machine it would be night and day and i would hate the industrial CNC! It works for what i do at the moment but after reading this i feel like im dealing with a bunch of problems that i thought were just normal cnc problems...(i zero to the top of the material everytime...)

 

[fixtureman]

I don't know about the rest of you but where I work I run a Biesse pod and rail and another guy runs their flat bed Biesse but when it comes to one offs they hire me to do it on my Shopbot as it is cheaper for them to sub to me than try to do it them self. I do work for 5 or 6 different sign shops on my Shopbot and never had any problems. That is why I say Shopbot. Also Shopbot supports all their machines even 2nd and 3rd owners My first one I was the 4th owner and got first class free support from them

 

[player]

Just fyi, Shopbots are flimsy, and are bolted together. Granted they do work, and they have a good web support forum, but compared to a "real" cnc they are just not rigid. They can also be buggy. They used to be a very low cost machine, but the newer units are getting up there in price. Compared to AXYZ, Gerber etc. and the very cost effective Limac, Shopbot is not in the same construction league.

 

[Eric H]

The only router that I have used is a Gerber Sabre. They are on the expensive side but in the nearly 20 years we have had it it's been trouble free. However I think you could get more for your money in todays market.

 

[artbot]

correct. that's what makes it the perfect small shop starter cnc.

light weight bad? --- you can put wheels on these things and roll them into a prime production location or roll away into a corner.
not rigid enough? --- for cutting foam, dibond, acrylic, engraving.... rigidity not needed.
bolted together? --- yes, and you can unbolt them and make them bigger (currently considering making my 52x98 into a 72x98)

the question is not "what is the best cnc" it's what is the right purchase.

take two small shops give them both $15,000.

one guy buys a used shopbot for $8k (stupid sweet set up) and spends the other $8k on web, advertising, and marketing gear.

vs.

the other guy spends $15k to just get the cheapest possible non-shopbot delivered (which will require professional riggers) and see who is
off to the profit races?

it's not about having the best equipment, it's about making money.

 

[spectrum maine]

cnc choices

i would consider the new techno machine. robust , affordable & based in america.
i have a 5 by 10lc machine i bought used w/ vacuum table & pump,computer & enroute software & computer for 21k & it was practically brand new. had 5 years & cut everything from copper, 1" plex, 1/4" aluminum, channel letter backs & faces. the shopbot has rails & gears on the side thet looks like it will trap chips & dust, losing accuracy. my techno has a ballscrew y axis & underslung gantry rails, keeping them clean & accurate. cant go wrong w/ a multicam either. also the cammaster looks pretty robust.
erik michaud
spectrum signs
biddeford maine.

 

[Gino]

correct. that's what makes it the perfect small shop starter cnc.

light weight bad? --- you can put wheels on these things and roll them into a prime production location or roll away into a corner.
not rigid enough? --- for cutting foam, dibond, acrylic, engraving.... rigidity not needed.
bolted together? --- yes, and you can unbolt them and make them bigger (currently considering making my 52x98 into a 72x98)

the question is not "what is the best cnc" it's what is the right purchase.

take two small shops give them both $15,000.

one guy buys a used shopbot for $8k (stupid sweet set up) and spends the other $8k on web, advertising, and marketing gear.

vs.

the other guy spends $15k to just get the cheapest possible non-shopbot delivered (which will require professional riggers) and see who is
off to the profit races?

it's not about having the best equipment, it's about making money.

It's also about having the right equipment for the job. No need to buy stuff unnecessarily, just for the sake of having it. Make sure it will be used to the fullest extent of it ability/capabilities.