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Experience with liquid laminates?
- Thread starter signs20
- Start date
It is costly (per sq. ft.) because of waste.
Time consuming.
Stinky..
Require space to dry the graphics...
Easily to attract dust... etc
Only worth if you don't have a laminator or hard to laminate surface such as canvas
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
From experience gained from using Clear Shield liquid laminate over the last couple of lustrums I have to disagree with each of your points.
There is no waste and the cost per ft^2 is a fraction of that of vinyl laminate. Moreover, it never fails, it never screws up a print. In fact, the cost is so trivial in the grand scheme of things that I don't even charge extra for it. I just do it out of hand and figure the cost as overhead right in there with things like application tape and xacto blades etc.
It takes less time to coat a print than to laminate it. A lot less.
It has no discernible odor.
As for drying space, perhaps you might familiarize yourself with the concept of a clothesline.
It attracts no dust nor anything else. It has no static charge. If your shop is a pig sty then bog only knows what might fall on it but whatever that might be it most certainly not attracted to it.
In addition, it's been the experience of myself and others who have actually used it that it's UV and general weather resistance would seem to be superior to vinyl laminate. Years superior. While abrasion resistant, it is not as abrasion resistant as vinyl in those odd severe applications
In this shop it's used for every job where bullets don't have to bounce off of it, the client doesn't specifically request it, or the added thickness of a vinyl laminate isn't needed for application.
letterman7
New Member
That's interesting to hear, Bob. I've used Clear Shield on odd jobs, but not as a go-to over my regular vinyl lam. I'd like to try to use more of it and that may give me the incentive to try it on some other items in the shop. Do you use it on vehicle graphics and if so, how does it seem to last? What is your preferred application method?
Rick
Rick
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Original formula. By far the best formulation. And, yes, I've had experience with the other specialized formulas. Even the folks at Clear Star, the manufacturer, recommend original formula.
Just thin it until it's the consistency of whole milk and then mop it on and smooth it out a bit with a foam brush.
JMPrinting
New Member
Just curious, can roll laminate be squeegeed on?
We've used the clearshield original on vinyl banners when customers are willing to pay extra for extended durability. We keep samples sitting in the shop, so a few customers are willing to pay extra for it once they see the difference. We also use the clearshield type C on canvas prints. We just apply with a foam roller, rolling two light coats. I've also used the clearshield original on window perf vinyl.
I was at a trade show recently and saw a demo model of a nice liquid laminator - I think it was made by the same company that makes clearshield. It was a nice setup, but I don't see how it's any better than a regular laminator. For regular vinyl, I still prefer traditional laminate, though.
I was at a trade show recently and saw a demo model of a nice liquid laminator - I think it was made by the same company that makes clearshield. It was a nice setup, but I don't see how it's any better than a regular laminator. For regular vinyl, I still prefer traditional laminate, though.
Techman
New Member
most of those clear finishes are made from acrylic polymers.
They use various solvents to vary drying times.
Future floor wax is one of the most common uses for the acrylic polymer. It is clear in the bottle because of the solvents used to make it.
In fact nearly all industrial strength floor waxes are acrylic polymer of some sort. Rubber maid has one sold at Home depot that is as strong as they get.
A Gallon of it is about 30 bux verses the high price for those other name brand laminates used in sign shops. We all know it repels water and is very tough. It takes a specific stripper to get it off the floor.
So why not use good old industrial floor wax for a far less expensive laminate that is just as good as anything that costs 4 times as much.
Its all the same stuff. Acrylic polymers that dries clear.
They use various solvents to vary drying times.
Future floor wax is one of the most common uses for the acrylic polymer. It is clear in the bottle because of the solvents used to make it.
In fact nearly all industrial strength floor waxes are acrylic polymer of some sort. Rubber maid has one sold at Home depot that is as strong as they get.
A Gallon of it is about 30 bux verses the high price for those other name brand laminates used in sign shops. We all know it repels water and is very tough. It takes a specific stripper to get it off the floor.
So why not use good old industrial floor wax for a far less expensive laminate that is just as good as anything that costs 4 times as much.
Its all the same stuff. Acrylic polymers that dries clear.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Never really thought of using floor wax or whatever on a sign for hanging outside. Maybe a floor decal, which will get a lotta foot traffic, unlike a sign, but what are the UV inhibitors like with an interior household product ??
Over the years we've used quite a bit of clear shield products. In fact, we still keep a case at a time of the rattle can solvent version... ClearJet. Great stuff. Also, keep a gallon or two of Frogjuice in quart cans and diluted to varying degrees depending on the need.
Over the years we've used quite a bit of clear shield products. In fact, we still keep a case at a time of the rattle can solvent version... ClearJet. Great stuff. Also, keep a gallon or two of Frogjuice in quart cans and diluted to varying degrees depending on the need.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Correct, I'm not a chemist and figured the reference to floor wax was generic on your part. The rest of it doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things pertaining to signs. It's just another possibility on the vast scope of..... what ifs. ))
However, since you are more knowledgeable on the stuff..... what is the UV effectiveness of any of the products you brought up ??
However, since you are more knowledgeable on the stuff..... what is the UV effectiveness of any of the products you brought up ??
What about UV protection?
These comments are good. But, there are 2 main issues with laminates.
1. Extension of fade resistance of images due to UV.
2. Protection of the image from abrasion and environment.
Household products are primarily used indoors - don't need UV protection.
ClearShield claims a substantial improvement in fade resistance.
We asked them about this, but they didn't/couldn't come up with any supporting info except for some anecdotal comments. And we don't have 5 years to run tests.
That is why we hope that some users have some extended time experience. This stuff might have good potential if it works.
Thanks again.
These comments are good. But, there are 2 main issues with laminates.
1. Extension of fade resistance of images due to UV.
2. Protection of the image from abrasion and environment.
Household products are primarily used indoors - don't need UV protection.
ClearShield claims a substantial improvement in fade resistance.
We asked them about this, but they didn't/couldn't come up with any supporting info except for some anecdotal comments. And we don't have 5 years to run tests.
That is why we hope that some users have some extended time experience. This stuff might have good potential if it works.
Thanks again.
Techman
New Member
abrasion resistance is an unnecessary worry in my opinion.
Water based liquid lam is a thin plastic layer a mill or two thick in one coat and a few mills thick in two coat's. I used it in places where there is no worries about someone scrubbing the piece.
I've used some type of floor polish over ten years and never saw a problem. I tested it on my own trailer with encad print that lasted two years then it was was changed but still looked good. The un-coated side lasted about 8 months at best.
Water based frog juice uses Diethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether as a solvent (and a few other ether and alcohol things) Just like some acrylic based floor polish. Hmmm?
If a commercial floor polish is tough enough to resist people walking on it for weeks and months then its is certainly tough enough for most graphics. Yes?
Is it for every thing. Is it the end all cure all? Nope. As with any product there are choices to be made.
Oh by the way. One can add some mica powder and color it too.
Here is what I been using for a very long time. If it takes a special stripper to get it off a the work table then what is the worry about abrasion resistance.
Smell them and one will see there is no difference in the odors.
![IMG_0357[1].jpg](https://www.signs101.com/data/attachments/84/84111-f465b23998592c88f125bd5ad4af6df8.jpg "IMG_0357[1].jpg")
Water based liquid lam is a thin plastic layer a mill or two thick in one coat and a few mills thick in two coat's. I used it in places where there is no worries about someone scrubbing the piece.
I've used some type of floor polish over ten years and never saw a problem. I tested it on my own trailer with encad print that lasted two years then it was was changed but still looked good. The un-coated side lasted about 8 months at best.
Water based frog juice uses Diethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether as a solvent (and a few other ether and alcohol things) Just like some acrylic based floor polish. Hmmm?
If a commercial floor polish is tough enough to resist people walking on it for weeks and months then its is certainly tough enough for most graphics. Yes?
Is it for every thing. Is it the end all cure all? Nope. As with any product there are choices to be made.
Oh by the way. One can add some mica powder and color it too.
Here is what I been using for a very long time. If it takes a special stripper to get it off a the work table then what is the worry about abrasion resistance.
Smell them and one will see there is no difference in the odors.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
So, there's nothing about UV resistance or anything connected to it ?? No problem, I'll just pass on it, then. Seems to me if, if something dries that hard, even being acrylic, it's not gonna have the flexibility other products have, so on banners, pvc and other fast expansion and contraction rate substrates, it might get the job done, but not as good as the product really intended.
Also, I never knew Butch had a water based juice. Interesting.
Technicalities will always happen and while something works for others, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. I have my own clearing concoction and it made things sun/weather/scratch/heat resistant for years. It was Dana clear. Best product on the market. It's now near impossible to get. You could have a billboard last 15 years without any problems. No burning, no cracking, no peeling, no fading, no changing colors and no lost sleep. We bought it in 5 or 6, 5 gallon cans and stockpiled it.
If I ever need some floor graphics that will remain in place for a while, I'll be sure to think this method into the equation.
Thanks
Also, I never knew Butch had a water based juice. Interesting.
Technicalities will always happen and while something works for others, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. I have my own clearing concoction and it made things sun/weather/scratch/heat resistant for years. It was Dana clear. Best product on the market. It's now near impossible to get. You could have a billboard last 15 years without any problems. No burning, no cracking, no peeling, no fading, no changing colors and no lost sleep. We bought it in 5 or 6, 5 gallon cans and stockpiled it.
If I ever need some floor graphics that will remain in place for a while, I'll be sure to think this method into the equation.
Thanks
My two questions for using any of the floor care acrylic products is how do they handle freezing and do they actually have a UV protective element?
I've used Minwax Polycrylic varnish on outdoor stuff only to have it fail after a winter or two.
We recently replaced Frogjuice with One Shot clear and the difference in performance, consistency and sheen is incredible. Both set up a little too fast for my liking, but the overall quality of the One Shot coating and its leveling off is far superior IMO. I've never cared for the little wispy strands that come off both as it sets up and you're rolling off the last of the remaining bubbles, but I think its the nature of the beast.
I'd love to find a more earth friendly solution and one that has a less intense odor.
Around the house, we use a lot of Bona floor care products, so maybe its worth a little experimentation.
I've used Minwax Polycrylic varnish on outdoor stuff only to have it fail after a winter or two.
We recently replaced Frogjuice with One Shot clear and the difference in performance, consistency and sheen is incredible. Both set up a little too fast for my liking, but the overall quality of the One Shot coating and its leveling off is far superior IMO. I've never cared for the little wispy strands that come off both as it sets up and you're rolling off the last of the remaining bubbles, but I think its the nature of the beast.
I'd love to find a more earth friendly solution and one that has a less intense odor.
Around the house, we use a lot of Bona floor care products, so maybe its worth a little experimentation.