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Exterior Routered Letter install

Discussion in 'Installation Equipment & Techniques' started by Tattoosleeve, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Tattoosleeve

    Tattoosleeve Member

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    We're doing some routed letters with 1" thick ComaCell that are going to be installed on corrogated tin outdoors. Just curious what sort of hardware options guys are using so there is nothing visible on the face of the letters. We've used 3m high tac double sided tape in the past for indoor installs but I'm thinking we should use something that ties right into the tin for an exterior install.

    The letters themselves are going to be 18" and probably about 12" on average.

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. GVP

    GVP Active Member

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    Stud or rail mount.
     
  3. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

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    I would stud-mount them and put silicone around the studs to seal the holes you drill in the corrugated metal. I would also drill the holes slightly over-sized. It's difficult to push a 3/16" threaded stud through a 3/16" hole in metal. So either use the same size bit and wallow the hole slightly or move up a bit size. If the holes are too tight and you try to force the letters in, you risk damaging the Komacel.

    After the above steps, if any of the letters don't fit snugly, I would also use a couple of pieces of VHB tape on each letter to ensure the letters are held in place until the silicone sets up.
     
  4. DSC

    DSC Member

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    :goodpost:

    What he said - USE LEXEL - it rules.. GO to the local hardware store and use 3.5" Hangar bolts ..or get pads and epoxy them. I like hangar bolts because you can screw them right into the PVC . 3.5" inches incase a hole ends up in the most recessed area of the building. put the silicone on the letter prior to sticking in the hole.. this way you will get better adhesion outside, through, and on the backside of the hole..

    if you get 1/4" Hangar Bolts, drill a 3/8" hole. these are pain to put in sometimes.
     
  5. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    IMO, based on a one time use.

    Lexel blows. Its like watered down silicone. It takes longer to set up, and is not nearly as strong a hold.

    I used it once (in the same fashion as I would have silicone), and had to remount some small sign panels on a pebble stone wall. The only saving grace, was that the signs came off easy, and the lexel wasn't as hard to clean off the stone wall (if thats a plus).

    Use 100% silicone
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  6. DSC

    DSC Member

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    one million percent wrong. Sets up 50% in about 20 minutes, and sticks in rain .. Silicone is great too.. Lexel far from "blows" ..

    Next time you mount a sign in a stone wall, try using a hammer drill, some lead slugs and a couple 5/16" lags.. That is how you mount a sign to a Pebble stone wall with poor surface adhesion ratio. r u serious?
     
  7. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    idk what comacell is, but if its not too heavy then 100% silicone and vhb tape should be enough. no point in putting holes in a perfectly good wall unless you need to.
     
  8. DSC

    DSC Member

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    " KOMA CELL " is a brand name for a high density PVC product..

    In the construction world there is a product called Koma Board.

    Made by a company calle KOMMERLING ..

    I call it Koma Tex.

    Every Sign vendor should carry it.. It is the best brand of PVC that is available imo.. Most dense, best router cutting etc..
     
  9. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    Remounted with silicone, and they have been up for 2 years. Keep in mind (before you get all sanctimonious with your "lead slugs and lags), I'll REPEAT, these were very small signs @ 20" x 14" mounted at face level. The silicone did a very fine job. The lexel was much thinner from the start, and never did "stiffen" up like silicone.

    Learn to read (things like "small sign" & "IMO"), and know all the facts, before sounding off like a "know-it-all".

    by the way...... Very nice attorney plaque on your website. Top notch :thumb:
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    too funny.
     
  10. Tattoosleeve

    Tattoosleeve Member

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    Thanks guys! Will run these solutions by our client.
     
  11. johnnysigns

    johnnysigns Very Active Member

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    Making a stud mount pattern for that is gonna suhhhh-uck, but can definitely be done.

    we rout tons of komatex for display stuff we do unless it's budget minded stuff. It almost looks like styrene at a nice discount comparitively.
     
  12. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

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    I totally agree. I thought I read that he had to use studs. If studs aren't required by the client, then I would definitely just use silicone and VHB tape.

    That being said, one advantage to stud-mounting is it gives you some adjustability and allows you to keep the letter faces flush in the event the fascia isn't even (ie: if the corrugated siding has any wave to it).
     
  13. mnapuran

    mnapuran Active Member

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    We just did this for a client (replacing 2 of his broken 30" letters) and did pad mounting with 3" round pads and some 1.5" stainless steel all-thread on corrugated metal. As Moze suggested, used 100% clear silicone and it worked great.
     
  14. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    Cut the same design in vinyl and apply it to some coro, then put short studs in the letters and press them on the pattern to mark the holes.
    Hang the coro and drill the marks, them remove the coro and install....pretty simple. Christ you guys think I am just Drinking and Farming or WHAT?
     
  15. DSC

    DSC Member

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    Well, All I would say is try to use opinions based on a series of trials on a product instead of just a one time use. Your not giving the Lexel a fair shot.. I use it everyday and have used it hundreds of times in different applications with no issues..That is what I would call field testing, "proof in the pudding" so to speak..

    I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all" just that I know about lexel. Seeing as how I have used it hundreds of times and you have used it once, I know better in this specific case...

    Coming in the thread and bashing my post with "lexel blows", based on a one time use is just lazy in my opinion..

    Try using a product more than once before you spout off the end all be all quality of said product..

    Not sure why you think "poor surface adhesion ratio" is funny, but you said it was a pebble stone wall, so I am assuming the face of the wall is not flat, so the ratio of adhesion from the face to the tape and silicone then to the wall would be poor or low no?

    Thanks for the kind words on the lawyer plaque.. I actually have nothing from the Northeast on my site, that is all work I did while working in Los Angeles .. I need to update our site really badly ,. Maybe The post Holiday lull will allow it.

    Happpy Thanksgiving!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  16. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    IMO, if an adhesive worked extremely poorly the first time I tried it, I too would never use it again, and most likely come to the conclusion that it blows...

    edit: although, seeing that its paintable, I might be willing to try it. :thumb:
     
  17. DSC

    DSC Member

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    Real information

    Well if any one wants some real info, go here (http://www.sashco.com/hi/lexel.html) despite what any of us say.. I live in an area where the temp goes form 110 to -10 throughout the year.. a more versatile flexible adhesive works better for us when applying hdu to metal or wood to pvc etc.. Different substrates react very differently in different temperatures so the flexibility is key, long term.. for us .

    It can cost about 3 times the amount of a common silicone. I think I get a tube for around 7 to 8 dollars.

    here is the site

    http://www.sashco.com/hi/lexel.html
     
  18. Conor Knoxx

    Conor Knoxx Member

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    This not something I've really done much of at all - so I'm reading this thread with some interest, for learning purposes (I'd much rather learn from everyone else's mistakes, than my own! lol )
    But I'm really wondering why there's so much use of silicone "caulking" as an adhesive, when there are such good construction adhesives out there?

    The few times I have had to do this sort of thing, I've used Lepage's construction adhesive (different kinds for different applications) with great results.... am I wrong?
     
  19. Jean Shimp

    Jean Shimp Member

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    Don't confuse silicone caulk with silicone adhesive. Also, be sure to check the date when you purchase adhesives. We learned the hard way that an outdated adhesive will fail. We used to use a lot of GE silicone adhesive with great success. Now, since the brand has changed we have had a few failures where signs have come apart due to adhesive failure. We are putting stud mounts (at least one) on the backs of larger letters and using more stainless steel hardware for insurance.
     
  20. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    I hate to pirate the poor guys thread with this nonsense, but.......

    As for making a pounce pattern, and how bad it sucks......

    Has anyone ever tried mirroring the CNC file, and drilled the holes in the backs of the letters before doing the contour cut........then print your pattern with a marker on your plotter, keeping the drill holes in the file?

    If you're doing a fancy edge on the letters, then you would have to do it the way mosh said (kinda....that drunken *******), only not using yards of vinyl, and sheets of coro. Simply make your paper pattern on the plotter as before.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
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