Fire Engine Sign Pricing...

[SellersSign&Design]

I am new to Signs101 as well as the sign making industry. I have been doing graphic design work for a while but just recently decided to get my own plotter and start making some of my own decals. I am both a full time/paid and volunteer firefighter so most of my business comes from the emergency services field. A friend of mine asked me to make this sign to hang under the rear bumper of the fire engine he is assigned to. He provided the aluminum substrate, I did everything else. All vinyl used with the exception of the engine turned gold is premium 9-10 year, the engine turn is 5 year rated per customer request. I did the outer striping separately from the lettering just to be sure that everything lined up and looked like it should. I'm just not sure how to price this. I am a one man/machine operation so I have at least 5 hours tied up in this not including some of the design work that took place before they decided on this layout. The price I have come up with is $120.00, but I was told that I was way too low on my pricing. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[SignManiac]

Realistically, $450.00 is more like it. So yeah, $20.00 bucks an hour is a hobby and hurts those who have real shops and overhead.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

Thank you for your reply. That's why I came here to ask this question. Like I said, I'm just getting started as far as actually making signs goes and I want my pricing to be right. The last thing I want to do is hurt people that do this full time for a living. I wouldn't call what I'm doing a hobby, my hopes are to grow this into a profitable business. Being a firefighter doesn't exactly pay large sums of money, so we are pretty much forced to work a second or third job on our off days. This is my third job, and it just so happens to be something I enjoy doing, so it seemed like a no brainer. I take pride in my work and I want my pricing to reflect that. At the same time, this job is for a friend who between himself and the other three guys that work with him have put money in out of their own pockets to pay for this because they have pride in the truck they ride. Being a firefighter, I respect that. But honestly all the reading I have done about pricing by the square foot for each color etc. etc. just doesn't add up. I have tried to look at what others around me are doing, but the pricing is so scattered it doesn't make sense. I guess the bottom line is I joined Signs101 to learn from those who are much more experienced than me, and it looks like the first thing I have to work on is pricing.

 

[SignManiac]

Good outlook and I did fail to mention in my previous post that you did a fine job on that sign, and that's one reason your work is far more valuable.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

I appreciate the kind words, that really means a lot coming from someone who is much more experienced than me. I guess part of my problem is beating myself up over the time I take and how that relates to the pricing. Since I'm just starting out, there is always that thought in the back of my head that I am taking twice as long to get this done as someone who is more experienced. I get hung up second guessing myself on pricing because I feel like I'm charging for time that I shouldn't have spent on the project. I guess me being so concerned with making sure everything is perfect doesn't help things either!

 

[signsbydebbie]

$275 to $450 depending on the market. You will starve @ $20hr., but at the same time you could probably design it in less time. Value your labor @ at least $50hr. - $85hr. and be worth it.

Sign looks great btw and welcome to the second oldest profession.

 

[OldPaint]

NICE WORK...................TILL
whatever made you do that break in the word engine & puttin 42 in a totally different font ........

 

[SellersSign&Design]

NICE WORK...................TILL
whatever made you do that break in the word engine & puttin 42 in a totally different font ........

I know that probably violates a few design rules! It's just how a lot of fire apparatus are done, at least in my neck of the woods. "ENGINE" "LADDER" and "RESCUE" are normally split, and the truck number normally has its own font.

 

[Jillbeans]

I don't discuss pricing out in the open forum, even though you do have to be logged in to see pricing topics.
I also NEVER price by the square foot, as every job I do is completely custom.
And...I always come up with a price before I make the sign.
(also not a fan of the 42 thingy)

$120 is not enough....ONE truck door lettering in HP vynull would cost more than that at my shop.
You're using specialty materials, and I'm sure you have at least that in them, plus your own time. My shop rate is $75 an hour (not afraid to say that out front)
For $20 an hour you might as well just donate it as a present. But don't...that will further devalue your work in the eyes of your fire buddies.

In my experience dealing with fire companies (and yes I do give them a discount) they go to the cheapest place available and even if their existing truck lettering looks like a hatfull of ***holes, they still want to replicate it.

But honestly all the reading I have done about pricing by the square foot for each color etc. etc. just doesn't add up.

It really doesn't. There was a thread recently where people were saying they do boat numbers for $15. Might as well give them away...what about the time spent dicking around with the customer, stocking materials etc etc?
Love....Jill

 

[Gino]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread for the OP or anyone trying to figure out pricing for their wares.

As Jill pointed out, a normal business is gonna have inventory, overhead, labor, delivery costs and so on. They are kinda like a hidden cost, but they must all be represented in your hourly wage, unless you do your invoices with a time and materials break down and add in your incidentals at the end. To me, that's a nightmare.

The sign is quite nice and it proves you've found a good third job, which might take the place of the second one and even become lucrative if you start out on the right foot.

The main reason you're gonna see prices all over the place is because people who don't have a bairn in their head are spouting off numbers with authority like it means something.

Picture it...........
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You have more than 1/2 the sign shops in action doing something they really know little about, let alone how to run a business. Some think you charge for the end result, while others think ahead and plan for all costs to be included in the final price. Guess which ones are selling their newly acquired equipment on eBay ??

Pricing is dangerous in this place. Many post phony numbers while others make them up on the fly. In a way, I'm glad for that, because in same instances, end-users can sometimes see these numbers and force a local shop with knowledge they gained here against another sign guy. With numbers all over the place, it's hard for end-users to do this.

If you want to really learn, I invite you to take a look at the 'Premium' membership which takes place behind the free peanut gallery for a small admission's price.
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[J Hill Designs]

just say 'I would normally charge around $400 for this but since y'all are my firefighter friends, how about $150"

sign looks great btw

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread for the OP or anyone trying to figure out pricing for their wares.

If you want to really learn, I invite you to take a look at the 'Premium' membership which takes place behind the free peanut gallery for a small admission's price.
​

Great advice Gino. Your right on, as usual.

The one thing that I never saw was the overall size of the sign, unless I missed it. It appears to be about 12"-15" tall x 6' long. The colors that you used were red, white, black and gold.

Based on that size based on the number of colors, I would be in the ballpark $400 - $450 range, and then I'd discount 10 - 15%...

As far as the different font, don't sweat it. Yeah, it does look odd, but they do it in my area. It drives me nuts, but I don't argue, as long as I get paid.

 

[MikePro]

+1
i'd be charging $120 for the gold vinyl application alone.

$400+ is very reasonable.

 

[Mosh]

$75....

 

[SellersSign&Design]

I appreciate all of the great advice. I'm using everyone's recommendations to put together a better pricing plan for my work. I wish I would've came here and asked about pricing in the beginning. The customer took the sign to his station and everyone liked it so much they are wanting me to come letter both sides of the engine with the same design. I've also been working with the gold leaf vinyl more and trying new things. I started on this project for myself the other night, I still have to add the striping around the border and then it will be finished. I decided to go with the traditional drop shadow and I wanted to try to put a white highlight on the "2", it actually ended up looking pretty decent.

 

[letterman7]

That panel looks nice ^. As far as the first panel.. most apparatus in this area "sink" the number behind the apparatus name. If you do it right, it reads much better. Now might be a good time to start a new trend in your area!

 

[Gino]

Congratulations on landing more work.

You have to be careful of a few things, though.

First, the white highlight does not look good, as you have it.
Your letters are too closed in/up for good readership….. you must’ve bolded up the letters before adding the black outline. You literally have no insides of letters.
Some letters and elements have shadows, while others don’t, thus lacking consistency or uniformity throughout.
Last and maybe most of all, the turn is wa-ay too large for that size letter.

When working with certain substrates or media, you can’t just look at your screen and decide what color vinyl you’re gonna use and just pop it in the cutter. You need to understand how and where the end result is gonna be used and what will work best for you. This is why we were telling you about inventory. What works in one place, might not be suitable for the same customer on a different piece of apparatus. You can see with your tape measure at the side, this is only inches tall, where your original was larger. The same reason, you just can’t use an outline and then expect the same size to work on a smaller piece. You need to look at things and study them if they don’t come natural or you don’t even know to look for them at all.

 

[SellersSign&Design]

Letterman7- I know exactly what you're talking about, there are a few departments around here that sink the number below the lettering. It does look much cleaner if its done right. I may try that on the next one.
Gino- I definitely agree with everything you mentioned. I was actually expecting the large turn to be too big, but since this was a project for myself and I was just playing with some ideas I went ahead and used it to see how it would turn out. I am going to order some small engine turn to add to my stock. I agree with you on the highlight too, some people like it but I think it is out of place. I will have to go back in the file and see if I bolded the font, I probably did without even thinking about it. I finished the striping around the border last night, I'll put a picture of it up so you can see the finished product.