Need Help Floor graphic calamity

[jtiii]

A local elementary school wanted paw prints in their halls. I went with a long term removable vinyl with a textured floor graphic overlaminate. I told the (brand new) principal that after they were installed they would need several coats of wax if they're going to survive the school year (this is per 3M floor graphic guidelines). I installed about a quarter mile of paw prints.

Then the principal and I found out that the janitors don't use wax, they use 3M Stone Floor Protector. It's a very thin acrylic and gets applied moch less often than wax. I contacted 3M and they said you can't wax over Stone Floor protector, and you can't use Stone Floor Protector on floor graphics.

I have really screwed the pooch here. Does anyone have any experience with that product, or any (preferably non-sarcastic) advice on another route to go here? I could test an edge sealer of some sort or test applying wax over prints and then floor protector over the wax, or?

Otherwise let this post forever serve as a warning - make sure you know how the floors get protected before you stick medium to long term graphics down!

 

[Gino]

Was this all explained in the quote, so the new principal could find out beforehand ?? Once they're installed and then you change some parameters on them, it's a little too late to expect them to inherit the problem.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

A local elementary school wanted paw prints in their halls. I went with a long term removable vinyl with a textured floor graphic overlaminate. I told the (brand new) principal that after they were installed they would need several coats of wax if they're going to survive the school year (this is per 3M floor graphic guidelines). I installed about a quarter mile of paw prints.

Then the principal and I found out that the janitors don't use wax, they use 3M Stone Floor Protector. It's a very thin acrylic and gets applied moch less often than wax. I contacted 3M and they said you can't wax over Stone Floor protector, and you can't use Stone Floor Protector on floor graphics.

I have really screwed the pooch here. Does anyone have any experience with that product, or any (preferably non-sarcastic) advice on another route to go here? I could test an edge sealer of some sort or test applying wax over prints and then floor protector over the wax, or?

Otherwise let this post forever serve as a warning - make sure you know how the floors get protected before you stick medium to long term graphics down!

Yikes! Bummer, dude. Did 3M have any suggestions for you? Personally, I'd try an edge sealer first. 3M even makes a liquid edge sealer, but I'm not sure how it would react with the stone protector or the floor graphic.

What happens if you put the stone protector over the graphics?

Was this all explained in the quote, so the new principal could find out beforehand ?? Once they're installed and then you change some parameters on them, it's a little too late to expect them to inherit the problem.

Where did he say he was going to put the problem on the school? He asked for suggestions on how to deal with the issue that he clearly indicated was his ("I have really screwed the pooch here").

 

[jtiii]

Gino, I hear ya - I'm not expecting them to inherit the problem. I'm trying to work with the principal so that we can prolong the life of these as much as possible. She really wants to keep the paws she has and obviously I'm hoping to avoid pulling up, eating, and replacing 1100 paws.

 

[jtiii]

What happens if you put the stone protector over the graphics?

The consensus from 3M and the janitorial staff is that it's too thin to do any good. "may peel up on the edges with out the addition material from the wax to bridge from the floor to the graphic" says 3M support

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Is it possible to (easily) remove the stone protector (without damaging the graphics)? That might be the best avenue- and getting them to use the appropriate wax.

 

[Gino]

Where did he say he was going to put the problem on the school? He asked for suggestions on how to deal with the issue that he clearly indicated was his ("I have really screwed the pooch here").

He didn't say that. I was inserting that, in case he didn't tell them up front.

Now...... the OP understood what I was saying, what's wrong with your reading skills, once again ?? I didn't say it with any malice or other insinuations, other than to... beware.​

 

[jtiii]

Is it possible to (easily) remove the stone protector (without damaging the graphics)?

At this point there is no Stone Protector on the graphics, and we did an isopropyl wipe before appyling that seemed to remove the protector from under the graphics.

beware

Indeed. Happy Halloween!

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

He didn't say that. I was inserting that, in case he didn't tell them up front.

Now...... the OP understood what I was saying, what's wrong with your reading skills, once again ?? I didn't say it with any malice or other insinuations, other than to... beware.​

Gino, why are you always trying to stir the pot? I asked a question, because I figured either you misunderstood the OP or you gleaned some information out of it that I didn't. Instead, you instantly go to the personal insults. In any case, if anybody here has problems with reading comprehension here, it's you. jtiii clearly stated that he talked to the principal, that he knew he screwed up, and that he was trying to come up with a solution to the problem. You, as usual, like to come in with unsolicited advice about something totally unrelated to his question, because Gino the All-Knowing just has to let everybody know how great he is.

I don't have time for your particular flavor of BS today. Worthless.

The consensus from 3M and the janitorial staff is that it's too thin to do any good. "may peel up on the edges with out the addition material from the wax to bridge from the floor to the graphic" says 3M support

You could always try edge sealing tape or the liquid edge sealer, but you might do a test on an inconspicuous part of the floor first. Not sure how well the edge sealer will work on floor guard or with the stone protection, but it couldn't hurt to try. Certainly beats redoing the whole job.

Good luck! Let us know if you figure it out.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

At this point there is no Stone Protector on the graphics, and we did an isopropyl wipe before appyling that seemed to remove the protector from under the graphics.

That's awesome, then! The principal needs to convince the custodial staff to use the proper (recommended) wax and forego the stone protector formula. If not, and you've already alerted them that there's going to be an issue, it pretty much makes it their fault. Laudable that you're wanting to work with them, but you can only do so much.
Edit: Or maybe the principal just needs to instruct them that they're going to use the floor wax, whether they want to or not. Unless there's some liability issue with it. If so... Yeah... Edge sealer and crossed fingers?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

That's awesome, then! The principal needs to convince the custodial staff to use the proper (recommended) wax and forego the stone protector formula. If not, and you've already alerted them that there's going to be an issue, it pretty much makes it their fault. Laudable that you're wanting to work with them, but you can only do so much.

I don't know much about the stone floor protector, but I imagine there's a reason they're using it? 3M states it's for porous stone surfaces, so maybe normal wax won't work?

I'm gonna go with GaSouthpaw, if you can get them to switch to normal wax, that might be your best bet.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

I don't know much about the stone floor protector, but I imagine there's a reason they're using it? 3M states it's for porous stone surfaces, so maybe normal wax won't work?

I'm gonna go with GaSouthpaw, if you can get them to switch to normal wax, that might be your best bet.

Oooh.. Sounds a lot like the custodial staff isn't using the right stuff anyway. Or that's a really nice school to have some sort of porous stone flooring! OP- what kind of floor?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Oooh.. Sounds a lot like the custodial staff isn't using the right stuff anyway. Or that's a really nice school to have some sort of porous stone flooring! OP- what kind of floor?

Dollars to donuts it's terrazzo. That stuff is ubiquitous in schools.

 

[jtiii]

Unfortunately the school system contracts out all buildings to a third party. Wax requires regular upkeep and they don't even have a buffer on site. Here's the floor, terrazo it is -

 

[GaSouthpaw]

I'm old. My schools had asbestos tile flooring.
Hope you manage to come up with a good solution.

 

[Johnny Best]

Thanks for the information and good luck with your problem.

 

[Billct2]

wow, since the floor sealer hasn't been applied yet I would consider all options... contact the company doing the floors and/or the comp[any that makes the floor/sealer see if they have a suggestions. Also ask 3M if maybe there is an overlaminate vinyl that could be applied over the prints with a bleed to protect them before they get cleared. Good luck and thanks for the heads up.

 

[equippaint]

Get some sealer and do a test in an area. What will happen if you put the sealer over the graphics? Id venture to say that 3M saying it is not recommended or its not labeled for that use is the go to default answer for anything they have not tested or dont want to warranty.

 

[CL Visual]

I'm not sure what material you used but from my experience, if you used ij180cv3 and 8518 lam and have all rounded corners, you will not have any peeling issues or tripping hazards. Although that's not a "floor lamination", it is UL listed and will indemnify you from any lawsuits (99% sure about htis). If they specifically asked for an "anti-skid" lamination then you definitely should have handed them a spec sheet and MSDS on the product before taking a deposit. I wouldn't use any edge sealer without a waiver signed by principal about what's left after removal. It will leave a ring around it and it's kinda rubbery. For extra protection, I would go around all the edges with a torch and a rollepro to make sure every edge is sealed down to the terrazo really well.

Sorry I don't have any better advice for you. Floor graphics are a fickle beast with safety.

 

[Gino]

I would imagine the OP meant a non-skid laminate when he mentioned textured, but I do agree wholeheartedly, putting any kind of sealer around the edge is going to create a residue which will be very noticeable and tough to remove when these are replaced, removed or just worn out.

Another question...... who's idea was it to question you or the principal, if they could put the Stone Floor Protectant down before doing so ?? Seems odd someone had enough sense after the fact to stop and ask questions. Someone knows something here and is not stepping forward.