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Frustrated - perforated window Install

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by brycesteiner, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    I did a perforated window vinyl sign and it looked very good. People who were walking along the sidewalk thought it looked great and so did the traffic who were stopped at the light. It really turned eyes.
    it was a block long.

    This is actually a designer who subbed it to us and their customer is picking out things that are really not issues--at least to me. Now the customer wants us to redo it. They are looking at 1 foot from the print instead of normal view distance.

    There is some fingerprints under the vinyl--not visible at all from outside, but now they want them cleaned off. I chose to not use gloves because I didn't want any possible lint or things sticking.

    They also don't like that there is a 1" overlap because it had to be done in sections. Would you slice these and hope there is no issue with where they butt up?

    Another thing is There are places that come together that are not exactly aligned because of stretching a little. We made what we thought was the best judgement and made the text all in alignment and let the pictures fall where they may.

    So, tell me, what would you do?
     

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  2. Dan360

    Dan360 Member

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    Overlaps are always more visible on window perf since you can never line up the holes exactly. If I have to overlap, I do .25". If the perf is laminated, I don't leave an overlap at all. Have some for install, trim it off and edge seal where they meet with optically clear.

    As for the fingerprints, if it's laminated, can't really do anything about them without redoing it. If not laminated, just spray it with water.
    I've never worn gloves on a window install and haven't had issues with fingerprints so not sure.
     
  3. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    If the artwork was released. it shouldn't matter if they're looking at it from a foot away or from my house.

    As for the fingerprints..... did you properly clean the class like 2 or 3 times beforehand ??

    Overlap..... what size are the windows ?? The largest I know of is 60", but I'm sure if you ask BigFish, he might be able to get you larger. I hate to see overlaps at ground level. There is no way you can tell people proper viewing distance is this or that. If they're standing there, they're viewing how they want.


    Oh.... do you hafta re-instal it for free ??
     
  4. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    >>If the artwork was released. it shouldn't matter if they're looking at it from a foot away or from my house.<<
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. They did approve it, but being vinyl there are a couple places where contrast lines in the pictures are off a little from stretching and we chose to keep the most obvious things out of the overlap area just because of that reason--well one small picture in the left window, it's visible if you are trying to find it, where the TV on top the fireplace doesn't quite align. It's off by 1/8 to 3/16" but the text before is on.

    They got a great price on this. Too good. Why is it that people who want the cheapest price complain the most?

    The windows are approximately 76.5" tall but they are not all the same.

    As for overlap I went with more because I thought a narrower overlap would be more obvious. I could trim off some of it for sure, but there will still be an overlap with full bleed pictures across multiple windows.
     
  5. bannertime

    bannertime "You guys do banners, right?"

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    1in overlap is overkill for window perf. Try to be at 1/4in or below. It's unavoidable in some cases, so as a printer we try to design the art to break up where the overlap is going to go. Obviously you didn't really have control over that. Explain to the customer that without an overlap, in about a year, there may a gap. If they agree, take a stainless steel blade and ruler and slice out that overlap a bit.

    Like Dan said, if there isn't an overlam, just clean through the perf with some isopropyl alcohol. If you're worried about lint AND fingerprints next time, try wearing some nitrile gloves.
     
  6. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    I actually had nitrile gloves but I didn't use them. There is not an over laminate. You don't think the alcohol will remove the ink? This is an eco-solvent ink.

    Do you have a sheet for the customer to read before installation about reasonable expectations?
     
  7. bannertime

    bannertime "You guys do banners, right?"

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    Just try a small sample in your shop first, but you don't need the alcohol, it'll just help. You may even be able to get it with a microfiber cloth.
     
  8. ams

    ams Very Active Member

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    Can you see the finger prints from the inside of the glass? There shouldn't be finger prints. Not sure how you installed it to leave finger prints. As for the vinyl stretching and not lining up, it happens, just depends how bad it is. But for the overlap, I butt it together or 1/16" over and never had a problem.
     
  9. printhog

    printhog Member

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    looks like your overlaps are horizontal not vertical.. lesson for future, the human eye & brain can resolve horizontal lines 4x better than vertical ones - which is one reason why we use vertical panels in the trade. I'd suggest trimming the overlaps to .25" or less. They certainly should not be that noticeable.

    Since you didnt use a laminate this window project is only good for 3-6 months or until a punk spray paints her boobs, whichever comes first. If it were laminated, you could have cut a butt seam and then applied seam tape (1/2" optic clear overlaminate tape from 3M) back over that to prevent shrinking and gaps. Also - since not laminated- expect that when it rains they'll be complaining they cant see out as the water will fill the holes and then the film will start to fail. Expect the window washer guy or passers by to do some damage right off and blame the lack of laminate.

    Yeah i know im not full of good news.. had these kind of cheap jobs bite me before .. so best to make fixes and move on.

    Dont use IPA to clean an ecosol print it will strip ink off, usually a few seconds after making contact. Same goes for some window cleaner solutions. Thinking about that - your butt is out there on this one, might be worth remaking properly, laminated, and with vertical sealed butt seams. your call.
     
  10. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    I'd do vertical panels instead of horizontal... And typically we do a quarter inch, or less for overlap. You could use some Knifeless tape... It'd make a good butt joint. Provided you're using good perf, it shouldn't create a gap over time... It might, but if they want a butt joint, thats their issue in a year.

    I'd also laminate it - We never put window film on without laminate (Make sure to use optically clear). The laminate also helps to stiffen the window perf so that it doesn't stretch. It makes alignment much easier.

    As for the finger print... I can't see them complaining about a fingerprint or two, it'd be impossible to notice... is there a lot, or huge hang prints or did you not clean the window at all or something? If theyre complaining about a fingerprint, they're too picky. If you didn't clean the window, and theres smudges everywhere.. thats a diff story.
     
  11. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    I did horizontal for 2 reasons and that was: it would be easier to have it blend with the brick pattern in the back ground. It would then be two pieces rather than 4 to try and align. The alignment on this actually went well but we minimized where the most noticeable places where if it didn't align exactly, it wouldn't matter so much. Yes, I probably should have trimmed it so only a 1/4" or less was overlapping, and I may do that today.

    As for laminating, what lamination would you use? I laminated it one time and the customers complained they couldn't see out, so I've never done it again. I've never had to redo one because it wasn't laminated. I do see where you are coming from though.

    thanks for the info!
     
  12. ExecuPrintGS

    ExecuPrintGS Member

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    We use matching optically clear lam on all of our perf prints. Keeps dirt and water out of the holes.
    I think what you did, minus the excessive overlap, looks good. Problem was how the install was going to happen was not relayed to the client. If they weren't expecting a huge seam because no ne told them that is a problem. Always manage expectations, let the client know exactly what they are getting, no surprises. Not really on you since you didn't design but the designer needs to know this also.

    Just my $.02
     
  13. CSOCSO

    CSOCSO I don't hate paint, I just overlay it.

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    You need to use optically clear vinyl that has "plastic" liner (not paper)
    like 3m 8518 or avery 1360z
    I would not use knifeless tape to do butt seam on perf. unless if you have the chrome -ppf tape that has metal filament in it.
     
  14. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    8518 isnt optically clear. 8914 is.
     
  15. boxerbay

    boxerbay Active Member

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    haha. so many wrongs here. I highly suspect this wont be a repeat customer so butt cut it then use a q-tip to clean the finger prints in the holes and move on.
     
  16. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

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    Well we went back and got everything taken care of in not much time.

    1. Narrowed the overlap on the large set of windows, and made it consistent by trimming. Was very easy to adjust.
    2. Put up a new large vinyl "second story" that was in three sections vs two so we could control where the overs were in the dark areas. Nitril gloves worked well for this.
    3. used alcohol to clean finger prints off. Though they were pretty much gone. Customer could only find a couple this afternoon, but still not a big deal. Alcohol does not have seem to any effect on the Eco-solvent ink as one person was concerned above.
    4. Cooked edges and any rifts it with heat gun.

    They did not want to spend the extra for laminating. I've had window perf--unlaminated up for over two years now. I haven't had to redo any. Hopefully we still won't and people won't be jerks and spray paint it.

    Customer loves it now and so did the designer. So I think everyone is happy.
     

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  17. papabud

    papabud Lone Wolf

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    that smaller seam does look so much better.
    once a customer feels there is a problem. they will go to great extremes to find each and everyone of them.
    normally starts with them feeling they over paid for something
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. CSOCSO

    CSOCSO I don't hate paint, I just overlay it.

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    If you say so... It looks freaking clear to me.
    You can see individual leafs on the palm.
    20170518_141628_HDR.jpg
    8914? they don't even sell that in usa, never even heard about that.
     
  19. boxerbay

    boxerbay Active Member

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    clear and optically clear are 2 different things. place each one side by side on a clear acrylic and you will see the difference.
     
  20. papabud

    papabud Lone Wolf

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    they do sell it in the usa.
    its what i use when i need to laminate window perf
    plus you can get it in tape strips to do edge sealing also
    there is a major difference between clean and optically clear. you cant see it just by looking at the laminate. but once its installed and out in the world it becomes a major difference
     
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