HP Latex 560 Print is Decreased in Size

[ktwigger]

I swear if I could go back two years I would scream at my boss not to buy the HP Latex 560.

*sigh* Okay. So, we've had this printer for over 2 years now and we are just running into a new issue and I need you guys' expertise before I go postal.

We have not had any issues to date with the printer regarding sizing, and now all of a sudden we are having an issue where the actual print is coming out ever slightly smaller than the size shown in the RIP Queue. This wouldn't be an issue normally except that we have to die cut some things on our plotter and I need for the file sizes to match. So far the two items I've measured and had to adjust in the cut files have been over 1/4" smaller than the print file. Everything in the print file and queue show the size correctly, so either the RIP is shrinking the files somehow and not showing anywhere that it is, or something is happening after the material is taken off the printer.

My coworker believes it could be our laminator. The laminator was bought around the same time so is it possible that 2+ years have made the rollers that uneven? And that it could be shrinking the material so severely? I'm going to try an experiment and see if what comes off the printer is the right size, but I wanted to go ahead and post here to see if anyone has experienced the same and has a suggestion on how to fix it. TIA!

 

[CanuckSigns]

It's not the laminator, the HP latex machines are notorious for this issue, as well as colours not matching from panel to panel, If i remember correctly there is some setting on the machine that helps to fix the issue you are having, but someone better versed in the Latex machines can chime in on that.

 

[ktwigger]

It's not the laminator, the HP latex machines are notorious for this issue, as well as colours not matching from panel to panel, If i remember correctly there is some setting on the machine that helps to fix the issue you are having, but someone better versed in the Latex machines can chime in on that.

You know, I have had color issues now that you mention it. Printed out a 3 panel wall, two panels in one print file and the last panel nested with other print items, and the last one came out significantly darker than the other two despite the fact that I quadruple checked that color modes, colors, profiles and material were all exactly the same. Now I'd really like to back in time and change this. Oy.

 

[balstestrat]

If the print is coming consistently off size from the printer you can compensate the size in the RIP automatically.
Strange thing is that it would start suddenly like that. Usually there's a reason to it, hidden change in the material, big weather change etc.

 

[ktwigger]

If the print is coming consistently off size from the printer you can compensate the size in the RIP automatically.
Strange thing is that it would start suddenly like that. Usually there's a reason to it, hidden change in the material, big weather change etc.

As far as I know the only change is that the firmware was updated about 2 months ago. Haven't had a problem with it until now though.

 

[iPrintStuff]

If it’s consistent there will be a media compensation somewhere in the rip. You print a large panel, measure the panel and the rip will automatically adjust based on those measurements.

Any changes to profiles etc? Obviously the less heat the less chance of warping etc so if you can turn that down and still get things cured etc I’d try that.

 

[Reveal1]

Both issues have been mentioned numerous times before but a couple of observations bear repeating:

Flip your panels so that the bottom of panel one is followed by bottom of panel two etc. . Effect of subtle color shift less noticeable e.g. the like colors are next to each other when panels are installed. We don't have the issue on our 560 but do that as best practice.

Calendared materials tend to shrink more and are less stable under heat than cast. Heated in printer it expands, and while cooling contracts, hopefully to near the original print spec. Add calendared heat assist laminate and when it cools it will shrink the print even more. We've documented this on 3M 35c and various Briteline/ GF / Oracal calendared all shrink approx 1/4" or more over an 8 ft. panel after lamination and 1/8" over the 4ft. width. Lately, we've converted almost all lamination to cast even when using a calendared substrate except products for indoor use.

 

[ktwigger]

Both issues have been mentioned numerous times before but a couple of observations bear repeating:

Flip your panels so that the bottom of panel one is followed by bottom of panel two etc. . Effect of subtle color shift less noticeable e.g. the like colors are next to each other when panels are installed. We don't have the issue on our 560 but do that as best practice.

Calendared materials tend to shrink more and are less stable under heat than cast. Heated in printer it expands, and while cooling contracts, hopefully to near the original print spec. Add calendared heat assist laminate and when it cools it will shrink the print even more. We've documented this on 3M 35c and various Briteline/ GF / Oracal calendared all shrink approx 1/4" or more over an 8 ft. panel after lamination and 1/8" over the 4ft. width. Lately, we've converted almost all lamination to cast even when using a calendared substrate except products for indoor use.

If it’s consistent there will be a media compensation somewhere in the rip. You print a large panel, measure the panel and the rip will automatically adjust based on those measurements.

Any changes to profiles etc? Obviously the less heat the less chance of warping etc so if you can turn that down and still get things cured etc I’d try that.

No settings have been made to the profiles I use or the heat settings. This is our standard, every day use material and we have not had issues like this in the 2 years we've had it.....until last week. I printed a panel yesterday and measured before it was laminated, so I know for certain now that it's not the laminate doing this. It has always printed perfectly, barring any material jams or printhead issues, to the point that I prided myself on the ability to give 99.99% perfect die cut decals to our customers. This is no longer the case. This morning I tried plotting something and had to size the cut file down more that 1/4".

 

[Gino]

Is it possible your rollers are gripping a little too much and holding the feed back just a hair on each turn ??

 

[ktwigger]

Is it possible your rollers are gripping a little too much and holding the feed back just a hair on each turn ??

Definitely within the realm of possibility. There's a setting for that that I'm testing right now.

 

[richsweeney]

Is it on all substrates? And if you are using imported substrates, they can change batch to batch.

 

[Bly]

It's not a bug it's a feature

 

[ktwigger]

Hi guys, just wanted to report back in case it helps anyone, but there is a very easy fix for this. We run Onyx Thrive RIP, and under "Edit Quick Sets" click advanced, then go to the "Tile Setup" and make sure "Tiling" is selected. Have printed several die cut items today and all are back to reading and cutting perfectly on our plotter.

 

[balstestrat]

Hi guys, just wanted to report back in case it helps anyone, but there is a very easy fix for this. We run Onyx Thrive RIP, and under "Edit Quick Sets" click advanced, then go to the "Tile Setup" and make sure "Tiling" is selected. Have printed several die cut items today and all are back to reading and cutting perfectly on our plotter.

Sorry to interrupt here but turning on tiling really shouldn't do anything unless you have some settings gone wrong elsewhere in onyx...
But I guess its good if it helps?

 

[ktwigger]

Sorry to interrupt here but turning on tiling really shouldn't do anything unless you have some settings gone wrong elsewhere in onyx...
But I guess its good if it helps?

You're probably not wrong but honestly I don't get paid enough at this job to keep worrying about it LOL. This printer and the Thrive program are both buggy as hell.

 

[iPrintStuff]

That’s definitely a weird fix. Have you tried an uninstall/repair on the programme? Seems buggy.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

We had this issue. HP tech support was no help. We ended up turning off OMAS and now everything is spot on. It even improved double sided banner registration.

 

[ktwigger]

We had this issue. HP tech support was no help. We ended up turning off OMAS and now everything is spot on. It even improved double sided banner registration.

Interesting, I did see that setting on there but didn't try turning it off. I'll give that a try. And honestly LOL at the HP thing. They never are. Not ever.

 

[balstestrat]

You should do the advance calibration if you turn OMAS off.

 

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

You should do the advance calibration if you turn OMAS off.

Oh yeah, I forgot that part. Thanks.