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I need a color chart

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by slappy, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. slappy

    slappy Very Active Member

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    I don't have a digital printer, but i once i ordered some business cards off a distributor and the blue came back purple before and i had to reorder.

    I also get a lot of digital vinyl prints from a MM member here.

    I'm looking to invest into a color chart for when i have things like this printed.. any suggestions to what i can purchase to help me out on my end so when i order things they come in the colors i want them?

    Thanks:thankyou:
     
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  2. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    If you're ordering from someone else, you should be asking them to hit PMS#'s.
    Get a Pantone Color Book set. available from fellers, amazon, ebay, etc.
    there's a lot of versions, but the Solid Coated from the Plus Series works great for me.
     
  3. All-SignZ

    All-SignZ Active Member

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    A pantone color chart would probably be a good place to start.
     
  4. aaronJREgraphics

    aaronJREgraphics Member

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    Pantone plus series books are good kinda pricy for a little book but they work great, come in a few diff finishes that cover about everything.
     
  5. GVP

    GVP Active Member

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    Why not ask your MM supplier to provide you with a printed color chart? At least this way you are actually seeing what you would get?
     
  6. slappy

    slappy Very Active Member

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    Fellers has 2
    Pantone Plus Series Color Formula Guides
    or
    Pantone Plus Series Solid Color to CMYK Conversion Guide

    Not sure which is better for me since i don't have the printer.

    but there is so many other ones out there to....

    http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone/colorfinder.aspx

    formula guide
    color bridge guide
    the list goes on it looks



    GVP, Not sure if he has a printed color chart, but i will ask.
     
  7. slappy

    slappy Very Active Member

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    the thing that throws me off is the
    solid coated
    or
    solid uncoated charts

    dunno.... looks like a lot of options and it's confusing to figure it out

    I guess i should ask do i need coated or uncoated guided? And then i see Hexachrome guide???
     
  8. mpn

    mpn Active Member

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    From the offset printing side of things

    Hexachrome is a 6 color process(cmyk org. grn.) as opposed to cmyk
    coated for gloss stocks
    uncoated for matte stocks
     
  9. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    The one for coated colors will be the one you use most often. Basically, coated means glossy & uncoated means matte.

    Look up the color you want to hit and apply that pantone number in your design files and you should be good to go, as long as your print suppliers have their machines calibrated correctly.

    Get a combo book that has coated and uncoated if you plan to do things like matte-finished business cards.
     
  10. slappy

    slappy Very Active Member

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    Thank you Border:U Rock:! I needed to hear that! "coated means glossy & uncoated means matte" I did not know that and that's the best advice yet given to me so far! Thanks so much! Yeah, that sounds exactly like the what i want! Especially for the business cards and using matte finishes....Combo book it is! Now I need to find it!
     
  11. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Sounds suspiciously like you sent the printer a CMYK image. Blues tending to purple is pretty much standard if you do this. Big mistake. In the future send them an RBG image. Let their process convert it, it will do it far better than any software you have. Not only that, but the RGB image defines just what the result is supposed to look like. It's their job to hit it. If they whine about it, tell them to deal with it or find another printer.

    For lo these many years I've been sending off 300ppi RPG files in jpg format. For all printing I job out. What I get is pretty much what I see. Moreover I always insist on doing these jobs offset, not digital. Vastly superior color reproduction with offset. If the job is done digitally you'll end up with the same sorts of color shifts your trying to avoid.
     
  12. jsmoritz2000

    jsmoritz2000 Very Active Member

    We ordered Pantone color books when we first opened our doors and I can say it was a great investment for all the signage, screen printed apparel, and digital prints that we sub out. It makes matching colors a breeze.
     
  13. bigben

    bigben Moderator

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    I have the color bridge books. I like the way I have the pms version and CMYK version with the RGB, CMYK and HTML conversion in the same book. This way, it easy for me to show the colors it will actualy print/show for the customers.
     
  14. fresh

    fresh Very Active Member

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    HOLD UP THERE FOR A SECOND. You are wrong, every print vendor I use specifies converting to CMYK, not RGB. Also, how in the world can you guarantee the colors to match your screen or printer? The only way to color match is to either provide a PMS color, or a hard copy of the color you expect to match.

    CMYK is for PRINT and RGB is for SCREEN / WEB

    Can someone else who has more experience in offset (and/or digital) printing please chime in on this? Please?
     
  15. fresh

    fresh Very Active Member

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    I need this. I just got a job where they specified CMYK, HEX, and RGB, but no Pantone. GRRR.
     
  16. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Wrong? Doubtful. I've been doing this longer than you've been on the planet. And probably your parents as well.

    The thing you fail to comprehend, no surprise, is that virtually all systems used by commercial printers, and your very own RIP if you print, will do a far better job of converting the RGB image for printing than any software you might have.

    How do I know this? It's the result of doing exactly what I advocate. For years. When I have a job to print on my own equipment [currently a Mutoh 1204] it do it in one of exactly two ways. Either I send it directly out of Flexi or I import a full size RGB jpg into Production Manager. There is no other way I will set up a print job. When I do this what I see is pretty much exactly what I get. Trust me, I've done it every way possible and this produces the best results by far.

    Now then...I merely extrapolate this experience for print jobs I farm out. With exactly the same results. I realize that virtually all commercial printers specify CMYK. I tell them, each and every one, that if they want my business they'll deal with RPG jpg files. If they don't like that, there's plenty of printers that will accommodate my requirements.

    As an example, I had a large print done on fabric for one of those curved 10' high exhibit backdrops. I was dealing with a big name outfit that should have known better. Anyway, I sent them a full size 150ppi RGB jpg. I told them to take a look at this file because that's exactly what I wanted the print to look like.

    They called after a couple of days and said that they were sorry but when they tried to print this file the blues all shifted to a muddy purple and the other colors also experienced extreme shifts. This image was mostly brilliant blues. I asked if they converted the file I sent them to CMYK before they sent it to whatever they were using for a RIP. To which they replied "Of course, we have to do that to print it."

    I told them exactly what I wanted them to to. I told them to send the file I sent without any modification to their RIP process, set the rendering intent for bitmaps to 'Perceptual', and print the damn thing. They said they would but they've never done that before that I would have to accept the outcome no matter what. I told them That If they sent the job EXACTLY as I told them to do so, that I would accept whatever the outcome would be.

    A couple of days later they called. The kid was amazed that the print came out pretty much exactly like the file I sent them. She said that no one there had any idea that you could do that. I just smiled and remarked that I really should charge them for opening up a whole new world to them.
     
  17. fresh

    fresh Very Active Member

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    You sure can write a lot of nonsense! Open up the same image on two, three, or even four different devices. Seriously, GO DO IT.

    Okay, now that you have the same image on the FOUR DIFFERENT DEVICES, please tell me which one you would like it color matched to. Your laptop? How about the old CRT desktop monitor you've been meaning to replace for the past 10 years (since you are SOOOOOOOOOO OLD, I assume you also have old equipment.)

    Now, how about you go and change your light source. The color is different in florescent light, tungsten, daylight, etc. How do you know that your vendor has the same light source that you do?

    Really, just because you have had dumb luck sending RGB files, doesn't mean that its a good idea to do it.
     
  18. fresh

    fresh Very Active Member

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    WHY ARE YOU DESIGNING IN RGB COLORSPACE IN THE FIRST PLACE????? If you really knew what you where doing, you would design in PMS or CMYK, and then you wouldn't have to convert. How do I know this? Because I've been working with digital graphics since before you even knew how to ,8,1.
     
  19. ironchef

    ironchef Very Active Member

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    Fresh, please elaborate, ive been taught to design in rgb space for printing and cmyk for offset(flyers, cards)
     
  20. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    You have a monitor that functions in CMYK? Are the laws of physics under which the external reality labors somehow different in your village? Or, more likely, is your grasp of those laws somewhat less than vice-like?

    Just so you know I've been involved in this stuff for more than half a century. From letterpress and all aspects of offset printing to doing a few tours of duty at the corporate research facility of probably the major player in this area, dealing with the development of ink jet technology and all aspects of digital interpretation of color. Don't try to tell me how to suck eggs sport.
     
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