TravinFlavin
New Member
Also, are they printing differently? Because as long as the spot color names are exactly the same your RIP should treat them them same anyway if you use color correction.
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Question Illustrator PMS color has differing CMYK percentages depending on File
- Thread starter Brennen
- Start date
bannertime
Active Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Brennen was converting them to CMYK in Illustrator before handing it over to the RIP. It'd be interesting to see what the RIP does.
They are printing differently. We use Versaworks Dual with a Roland Truvis 540 for this client on 3M IJ350.
So spot color should be checked? I did convert them to CMYK in Illustrator as I thought that would help which didn't. We had spot color checked when we first got this printer/software setup but had a tech tell us to uncheck it...Can't remember why. Would having Spot color checked make it so no matter what version of Pantones color book is used, they would print the same?
So spot color should be checked? I did convert them to CMYK in Illustrator as I thought that would help which didn't. We had spot color checked when we first got this printer/software setup but had a tech tell us to uncheck it...Can't remember why. Would having Spot color checked make it so no matter what version of Pantones color book is used, they would print the same?
bannertime
Active Member
Possibly. Honestly won't know until you try it. I always convert to LAB, myself. I've sent PMS spots to my RIP and they were close, but not the closest to the book color.
Check out https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2316378 for a detailed discussion. It refers to converting color in InDesign, but it would work the same in Illustrator.
Bigdawg
Just Me
This is a "glitch" (for lack of a better word) in Illustrator and spot color swatches. Make a new file and draw a box. Define a spot color called "testing" and give it the values of 80C 0M 80Y 0K and fill the box. Then make a new document doing the same thing (with the exact same spot color name) but this time define it as 0C 80M 80Y 0K and fill the box. Now copy one of the boxes in to the other file. It changes color, even though the spot color names are the same. Instead of alerting you that the spot colors have different values, Illy just *assumes* that they are the same and changes the color to match the definition of the document it is working in.
So when Pantone and Adobe update their color definitions, it does the same thing. You have to either redefine the old color with the new values or redefine the new color with the old values.
So when Pantone and Adobe update their color definitions, it does the same thing. You have to either redefine the old color with the new values or redefine the new color with the old values.
We have this issue too and I can confirm some of the previous posts.
We run the latest Illustrator on our macs but we run CS3 on the older RIP pc's that are stand alone (for checking artwork or making quick adjustments). The Pantone colours look very different when viewed on different versions of Illustrator. If I open a file created on CS3 in the new Ilustrator the Pantones look different, and vice versa.
It's not a problem for us because we print from the Pantone spot colours (ONYX Pantone Simulations) so it doesn't affect output.
We run the latest Illustrator on our macs but we run CS3 on the older RIP pc's that are stand alone (for checking artwork or making quick adjustments). The Pantone colours look very different when viewed on different versions of Illustrator. If I open a file created on CS3 in the new Ilustrator the Pantones look different, and vice versa.
It's not a problem for us because we print from the Pantone spot colours (ONYX Pantone Simulations) so it doesn't affect output.
It looks like your test files are just squares... Why not upload them so someone can take a look at it providing theyre not your clients files, and see if they can figure it out? I'd be interested in seeing them.
You could always delete everything but a Square with the pantone in each file and save it. Then upload it to dropbox or somewhere and share a link. Probably be the easiest/best way to get an answer.
You could always delete everything but a Square with the pantone in each file and save it. Then upload it to dropbox or somewhere and share a link. Probably be the easiest/best way to get an answer.
jfiscus
Rap Master
Yes, as stated above, Illustrator has updated the Pantone definitions over time when Pantone updates their definitions. So, older versions of Illustrator are using older definitions to determine the color values. If you open these older-version-created files, edit them, and do "save/save as" they retain the older version values; if you copy from them into "new" files the color will change to match the new document's color definitions. New files obviously use new values, you wouldn't want it to still use the older (now incorrect) values.
Pantone color values DO change over times, making older Pantone books (and old prints) outdated.
We keep our own "in-house" Pantone books that we print out of our RIP to compare colors to and choose colors from.
I have attached one from our software to this thread, if you'd like you may copy the art into your file and then print it out as a "constant" to compare to.
Pantone color values DO change over times, making older Pantone books (and old prints) outdated.
We keep our own "in-house" Pantone books that we print out of our RIP to compare colors to and choose colors from.
I have attached one from our software to this thread, if you'd like you may copy the art into your file and then print it out as a "constant" to compare to.
If you convert it from a true lab spot color...it relies on your working space for color. You'll see this a lot when black only builds are converted to rgb or cmyk...you will get percentages with decimal points. Printing arbitrary rich grays like this can give color shift. We try and keep EVERYTHING as spots for the rip. If you have a rip...and are profiled...let IT handle the color. Illustrator/pdf/eps/rgb/cmyk...it doesn't matter. Your rip should have the licensed pantone Lab values (they pay a bunch of scratch for licensing)
If your rip has a color library...or a color replacement function DON'T use other software (OR A MONITOR) for color management.
This is the problem we have with Indesign. It puts all the color management at the mercy of your monitor and working spaces.
The beauty of controlling it at the rip are tints and transparency. The only pitfall is stacked designated spot colors with transparency.
Rendering errors and neutralization often will occur. Certain blending modes don't render correctly either. (We really only can use multiply or normal)
When we get the occasional spot color to spot color gradients, which we all know don't work, we keep one as a spot and composite the other as a build.
If your rip has a color library...or a color replacement function DON'T use other software (OR A MONITOR) for color management.
This is the problem we have with Indesign. It puts all the color management at the mercy of your monitor and working spaces.
The beauty of controlling it at the rip are tints and transparency. The only pitfall is stacked designated spot colors with transparency.
Rendering errors and neutralization often will occur. Certain blending modes don't render correctly either. (We really only can use multiply or normal)
When we get the occasional spot color to spot color gradients, which we all know don't work, we keep one as a spot and composite the other as a build.
Broome Signs
New Member
dont get boged down with whats on the screen
use the colour replacement tools from your rip.
start by printing the rips colour cards in spot replacement section and assign the new colour to your file in the rip
both files will then print the same
use the colour replacement tools from your rip.
start by printing the rips colour cards in spot replacement section and assign the new colour to your file in the rip
both files will then print the same
clarizeyale
New Member
PS. your working spaces color settings should be the following:
RGB: sRGB IEC61966-2.1
CMYK: Coated GRACoL 2006
Same goes in your RIP/Production stuff
RGB: sRGB IEC61966-2.1
CMYK: Coated GRACoL 2006
Same goes in your RIP/Production stuff
ColorCrest
All around shop helper.
Actually, the sRGB working space is rather gamut-limiting nowadays because modern ink sets & media are capable of significantly more than sRGB in many areas of color. Also, the OP mentions "Adobe PMS" so why not, at least, use Adobe1998?
For CMYK, yes Coated GRACoL 2006 is a good option for shops that build their own files.
clarizeyale
New Member
I'm still learning so thought I'd share! but if this is more helpful, then that's great too.