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Laying down 210 Lam

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by Colin, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I’ve switched from LG print vinyl & lam to Oracal 3651 and 210 lam, but I’ve noticed that when laying down the 210 lam onto the vinyl (using the Big Squeegee method), it is not possible without having someone lift & pull the backing paper.

    Right at the start, the moment the face of the lam backing paper comes into contact with the vinyl, it grabs like crazy (stiction), and will not release when pushing the B/S.

    Other brands release nicely and skim across the face of the vinyl print without the need to lift & pull.

    Any work-around on this?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
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  2. Patentagosse

    Patentagosse Active Member

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    All I can say is Oracal's 210G is a great laminate, superior gloss level, very li'l "silvering effect" compared to other brands BUT... I use a laminator so pressure is even and the take-up saves me from this issue. Good Luck.
     
  3. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    You will eventually get onto it because you HAVE to, but that stuff sucks. It's great quality, but with the BS method...it doesn't have an incredible success rate the bigger the piece you try.

    I fought that for 6+ years, and just recently ordered Arlon. Feller's started carrying it, and it's got a mega heavier liner on it, so it doesn't buckle when you try to lay it down. I'm doing full sheets of vinyl no problem now. Best move I ever made.
     
  4. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    What is the equivilent to the 3651 / 210 combo in the Arlon calendered series?
     
  5. Jack Knight1979

    Jack Knight1979 Very Active Member

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    I've always needed someone to pull the paper up when I laminate that stuff. It's a nice thick laminate though. I like it. Just need to have four hands is all.

    Dale did a youtube video showing how you can lam 210 with a core and one person, but I've never had any luck trying that method. He whips it out no problem. Give it a look. Maybe you'll have better luck.
     
  6. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Compared to the LG I was using, it's very thin, including the backing paper.
     
  7. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    I found the video. The comments below it seem to indicate that this 2-sided tape method is practicable on ~30" wide or less.

    Looks like I may need to switch to Arlon.
     
  8. Mosh

    Mosh Major Contributor

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    I take an old 3" core (tube) and pull the liner with it rolling it up as I go.
    Can do a 4x8 no problem....laminator works WAY better though!
     
  9. Out There

    Out There Member

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    I tried this method a few times and gave up on it. Briteline lam has a thin backing also. I've learned to push with one hand and pull the backing up with the other.

    However, I might get a roll of Arlon also and try it out also.
     
  10. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    DPF4560GTX air release vinyl And 3420g (gloss) laminate for Arlon calendered vinyl.

    Yes Lg is thicker or more rigid we noticed that when we tried it once. The prints would roll up when coming out of the laminator and do not with arlon.

    Next....... and biggest problem is the big squeegie...... although I am surprised how many people do it........ its no replacement for a laminator.

    Good luck







     
  11. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    It is when you don't have one !! For Pete's sake, that's the whole idea behind that tool. Until someone can afford money-wise or space-wise... this is the next best thing.

    You use the tools you have. Just make good use of them and perfect them.
     
  12. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    we have 2 bs's just don't laminate with them.
    sorry but if you need to laminate something a laminator works much better and if you are a sign shop you should have one.
     
  13. Speedsterbeast

    Speedsterbeast Active Member

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    That's the nature of the beast of 210.
    I have been using a BS on 30" for a while.
    Longer runs require you to bunch the backing paper in your hand as you go or make a cautious pause when running the squeegee.
    You will get used to it if you stay with the 210.
     
  14. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Perhaps you should just clarify yourself a little better.

    If one was in a real sign shop, they would have flatbeds, CNC's, welders, screen presses, neon benders, grand format printers 14' wide, brushes, mahl sticks, laser and plasma cutters and.... oh that's right.... you're just talking about a step above hand laminating.

    Your statement is not wrong, just foolish to put your fellow tradesman down, just because they don't have the tools YOU have. Do you realize how small minded that is ??

    I know plenty of people who can laminate with a big squeegee as well, if not better than any laminator and be more cost effective cause you're not pulling any electric when you simply cut a piece of lam off, size it up and wham.... it's done, before you could even turn the laminator on.

    We just did two 4' x 8's yesterday, cause we didn't want to change out the laminator. Had 'em both done in less than 5 minutes. A little silvering and that was even gone in about an hour.
    Customer picked them up today and asked if we laminated them. He couldn't tell. :wink:
    Yep, it's always nice to have the proper tools to do the job, but not always a necessity... or a possibility.
     
  15. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Gino, Dunno about that. Any basic sign shop need the basic tools. Flatbeds, and CNC's are not your basic tools. A cheap laminator on the other hand almost seems like a necessity...to any "basic" sign shop. Unless you don't laminate your prints, then i guess you're ok...?
     
  16. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    OK to clarify if you are using a digital printer that recommends using laminate, then when laminating you should use a laminator otherwise you are offering your customers a product that is not made as well as it should be. ie silvering and small bubbles.

    We bought a laminator when we bought our printer not cause we had tons of money but because it was needed to do the job properly.

    Hope this clarifies my comments and will always use a bs just not for laminating.
    Sorry to all who have been offended.

     
  17. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    No offence taken. I think it all depends on the size of one's business. For me, I'm a one-man show, and not a hi-volume shop, and in the last 1.5 years of having my printer, not having a laminator has been just fine.

    Thanks for all the replies.
     
  18. TheSnowman

    TheSnowman Major Contributor

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    I just use calendared with calendared and cast with cast, I mix and match brands.
     
  19. Colin

    Colin Major Contributor

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    Yes, but I stock a cheaper cal (for the cheaper, shorter term jobs), and a premium cal for the longer term jobs, so I wanted to know what to replace the premium cal Oracal 3651/210 combo with in the Arlon line-up.
     
  20. LittleSnakey

    LittleSnakey Member

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    When you can afford one it may speed thing up for you. we are also a small shop and far from rich or closed minded.

     
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