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Long intro, but it needs to be.

American & Proud

American & Proud

New Member
Introduction:
Hello everyone.
I will start off by saying, this is going to be a LONG post so please go grab a cup of coffee or your favorite drink and sit back and relax awhile.

I will start off with a lttle info about myself and how I have ended up here

I am middle aged married man with 4 kids from 22 all the way down to 8 years old.

I was injured at my former union trade a commecial construction trade. I can no longer work at that trade of about 25 years because of the injury. (The case is still pending so I can't or won't bore you with all the details.)

Anyways I have a high school diploma and served a 5 year apprenticeship, that I can longer use to provide my income.

I always took the Art classes in grade school and high school because for me they were an easy grade to pass with high marks with little effort for me, the rest of my classes I can't say that about them. Never really liked school while I was in it.
(Hindsight is always 20/20 and wish I had listened to my parents and payed attention and went on to college)
Can't relive it though so I move ahead.

Now my Case is supposed to be helping me find a replacement job, but they refuse to offer up any type of retraining, at my age and my schooling in this economy, lets face it about all I will end up with is some minimum wage job that I HATE, to replace a $40.00 per hour career that I enjoyed doing.

Back before that, I did body&fender work and was a combo man, that means I also painted cars as well. I did that for 11 years before getting into the later trade of 25 years.

I enjoy woodworking and have a full woodworking shop in my garage.

I started messing with Photoshop several years ago and the reason was watching Bert Monroy on Tech TV. Got busy with life and my photoshop work got set aside to were I have forgotten most of what I learn from lack of use.

I have always loved old signs, I used to even try recreating vintage signs in Photoshop from scratch, no images used just a blank file to start with.

Even creating suck things as plain as a stop sign with as much realistic detail as I could do. Bert Monroys Photoshop/Illustrator images look photo realistic and that was what I was after in my spare time messing with photoshop.

OK, thats a little insight about me and some background info.

Now heres where some of you may groan and say "Oh no not Another one, here we go" Yes I will admit it, I bought a MH871 cutter from that site most here Hate.

But at first I did so because I took out my auto paint stuff and airbrushes and thought I would use the cutter for paint masks but then as I played with the cutter and did some research I decided to Retrain myself in a Career since it was obvious Comp could care less about me or my families well being, they just want me to take a payless shoe store job(yes they actually sent me to apply for a job there) and be Done with me.

I decided I want to and will learn this Trade, one way or another.

With my MH871 I bought 12 rolls of vinyl (BGS junk practice stuff) and some tools to go with it.

I played around getting a feel for things and all the while was deciding IF this was somthing I really did want to pursue or not.
Turns out I really like creating and cutting and have been making up Mock signs and banners as practice. (I have NOT taken on a job or sold Anything


Once I decided I liked doing this I started buying the Proper tools needed

I bought 32 rolls of Oracal 651 in 24" and 15" x10 yards and 15"and 24" black and white rolls in 50 yards.
44 roll floor rack-Signwarehouse $175.00 plus shipping.
8 rolls of different widths of Appt tapes clear and paper.
App tape roller
100 white 24"x18" coroplast signs and I bought 10 of each of the other color coroplast my local supplier had in stock. A case of H step stakes.
a used Insta Heat Press 15"x15" swing away.
2 of the Purple Super Edge safety straight edges.
4 OLFA 24"x36" cutting mats
I got a couple "BIG SQUEEGEES"
I bought a few CD's full of Clip art.
I have 2 PC's set up at my desk with 5 LCD monitors.
3 19" lcd's are mounted to a Mo-View Triple Monitor Stand, and they are hooked up to my now getting older XP comp now used for web surfing

I setup another Newer PC with XP and 4 gigs of ram a good Video card a 250 gig hard drive and a 550 gig Maxtor external hard drive for back up and storage.
I added two 24" lcd monitors to this PC and it is Dedicated to sign work.

I have Photoshop CS2, Illustrator CS2, CorelDRAW X4 suite, that Sign Blazer thing they give you.
My most recent addition of tools I just recieved from Beacon Graphics (I worked with Donna Ray) on Dec. 30, 2009 the Graphtec CE5000-60 and with it I bought FlexiSIGN Pro 8.6v2.

I have had a Wacom Intuos3 6"x11 Tablet with the mouse and 3 different pens for it since I first got a used copy of Photoshop 7.

Software I have, but that don't mean I know how to use any of them well, Yet.

I set up a 3'X8' table with the cutting mats in the 12'X16' room on the back of my house to have a set up Practice area. My 22'X24' heated and air conditioned garage is Full of woodworking machinery so I can't set up in their.

Now that I bought the Flexi Pro I would like to concentrate on learning it as my main go to software.
I plan on Practicing for quite some time before ever trying to bid a job or selling anything at all.

I am a Firm believer in getting paid the going rate in my area and No less.


I am one of the few, all too few Newbs that "GETS IT" on Pricing.

I gotta feed and house my family and live a certain lifestyle that I am used to living, and so does the sign shop down the road, undercutting prices does neither any good.
As you can see I do Not plan on being some basement(backroom) undercutting pricing fool in this trade, but do want to own a brick and mortor storefront as soon as I can.

I am a SLOW learner so Please bear with me, I know I have ALOT to learn and I Want to learn.

I have always been more of a "hands on" learner than a book type learner, but at 48 with no experience what sign shop would hire me?

So I MUST take the bull by the horns and learn as best as I can.

I use the same ID on that other forum with about 550 posts there, I tend to upset some as I push for better service from USC and Higher prices from the people that think that a hobby to them is fine to just give away, it's NOT.


I have been reading Hundreds of posts here since I signed up and before I did as well.

Sorry for such a Long intro but I wanted to explain some things and to show just how serious I am in Learning this Trade.

Remember the scene in An Officer and a Gentleman, were Zack Mayo cries out "I GOT NO PLACE ELSE TO GO" when his superior wants him to Quit?, well thats me, I have no place else to go, I must do this at my age I can't quit.


I hope to learn from you all and thank you for your time.

A&P

I have these book on the way from Amazon-

Mastering Layout: On the Art of Eye Appeal-Mike Stevens
Logo Design for Small Business-Dan Antonelli
and
How to Estimate & Price Signs-Dan Hale
 
Last edited:
Pat Whatley

Pat Whatley

New Member
Welcome aboard, I think you're going to do just fine. Pricing is the biggest failure most people make starting out and you seem to understand that.

You might want to slow down on the equipment, though. You've got a lot of purchases there for somebody who's not actually in business yet.
 
Mader Design

Mader Design

New Member
A&P welcome to signs101, make sure you have some thick skin over here and take the "criticism" as help rather than being bashed. The pro's tend to tell it as it is and don't show any heart doing so. But don't let that detour you from posting your work. But just remember you're going to get honest and ruthless opinions. Read, read, read is all I have to say. Even though I don't post much on this forum I get a lot of useful info on here just by reading what others have to say. Welcome

Buying all the equipment won't make you successful, but learning and mastering each tool will lead your to bigger and better things. Good luck with everything.
 
threeputt

threeputt

New Member
Welcome from the Pacific Northwest.

There's a few of us older cats on this forum. Keep reading on this board and you'll find you can tap into a wealth of information.
 
gabagoo

gabagoo

New Member
DanStriker said:
well your choice of "typestyle" does not make your intro any easier to read...but now that we know everything that you own....welcome i guess.
Click to expand...
\
I was going to comment on that typestyle and the difficulty in reading it lol

welcome to the board.

it seems you have planned this out and built yourself quite a bit of software and hardware to work from, which was the opposite of probably how most of us got into the biz. Good luck.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
Welcome. Beg the admins to let you edit that font... people are gonna quit reading it... I am very ambitious... and it's a holiday, so i powered through it, but if it's not too late, do yourself a favor & make that first post you spent your first hour of the decade on, into something people will actually read...


Now, I got a suggestion.. first ditto Pat... NO MORE TOOLS! Feed the family... sell off a few monitors if you need to, & maybe even the old cutter & the junk vinyl...

Here are my thoughts. You want to be in business. A retail business. You even specified you are aiming for a Brick & Mortar operation. I am just a couple years older than you. I've been making signs since 1989. 13 years of that was as a business owner. I had a bit of a jumpstart by taking over an existing business. I hate saying that because it wasn't that much of a jumpstart being a slikscreen shop with no computer & no vinyl or plotters... but it had a phone number that rang with people wanting signs & decals. I spent the first 4 years transitioning out of screenprinting & into everything else.

My point in starting with a bit of my own bio was to say that I came into the sign business as a technician (production trained, not business trained) & was able to get a long ways toward where I am today based on 3 things. The technical skill of 7 years as a signshop employee at 5 shops in 3 states, the good fortune to buy out a low priced shop to give me a jumpstart, and last but not least, entry into business at that start of a long stretch of a boom economy!

As you and many readers have most likely noticed... you do not have any of those three advantages. I have no doubt you can succeed, but without some of those advantages, I think your proper path to success will look different than mine & a lot of others here, but I think in this economy it is imperative that you (forgive the cliche) plan the work, and work the plan.

Here is the plan I think you should consider. I'm sure others will mention it, and I would be very surprised if you had not already considered it. It's not that obscure, but you didn't mention it, so I assume it is not currently your plan. Nobody else had mentioned it at the time i started typing, so I will. Sure, I could have just posted it in 10 words, and moved on to the next post, but I read every word, put myself in your shoes, & applied my 20 years of experience... and I have a lot more than ten words of help I want to offer.

Hire a young experienced sign maker, and you go sell!

Here's why. You have the money to get tools, and you have the ambition & motivation to start something you know will take up years and years of your life, and will involve great sacrifice, but will lead to great reward.

Someone needs to lear business skills for a business to be successful. In this economy especially, someone needs to invest time & energy in selling. If you are going to own a sign business, that someone is going to have to be you.

If you had some of the advantages i had starting out, like years of production experience, an existing shop with orders flowing in, or a great economy... well, things would be different & perhaps you could learn business skills & selling skills as you go. For you, there will be no "as you go" without selling.

Yeah sure, you want to learn to make signs... I get that, and you will & you will learn to love it (obviously you already got the bug) ...but mark my words, you will learn twice as fast (if not 10 times) from the daily benefits of a somewhat seasoned veteran in your midst, AND you will earn twice as fast if you get the jobs in the door, and pay a reasonable wage for someone else to get the jobs out the door... maybe in time you will be able to be a one man show for a few years & will make even more money... you were an apprentice once right? So you get that concept... Quit practicing... put those machine to real use... spend the first half of 2010 learning business & sales skills & beginning to implement thos skills & you can open up for business on the back of another production persons experience. If they make most or all of the money at first... you're no worse of than sitting in your basement practicing, but instead YOU will be practicing the skills that I truly believe YOU will need most to survive, AND you will have the BEST training in the production realms that you could ever get...live one on one opportunity to see it done right.

With a plan like that, you would shift your thinking, but then look at 2 major advantages you can benefit from, that hinge on an economy that most people don't see advantages from. There are going to be young experiences sign makers out of work.. and they are going to be looking at reduced pay scales anywhere they look. Many young people and several older ones as well are less able to tool up for a business venture, or less motivated than youself.. THAT is what you bring to the table! Find one of those talented unemployed sign makers, willing to help teach you while they help build your business & pay them well enough to stick around... and you could do very well for yourself.

Good Luck!
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
I didn't read past the first couple paragraphs. Too hard to see it.. But I got the gist of it.

My advice..

Learn how to market the bizz. All other skills can be learned pretty fast. OJT works.
But without some marketing skill you will struggle long and hard.

You will have lots of ideas and get lots of advice on how to advertise. All of it will be wrong. The advice you get from good marketing will be right. Marketing will guide your advertising.

I watched many good people over the years trying to build their dream business. Many did ok over time but failed as soon as some negative outside influence came along. They didn't know how to market to persons least affected by the negative influences.
 
G

GypsyGraphics

New Member
iSign said:
Sure, I could have just posted it in 10 words
Click to expand...
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
No you couldn't have Doug!

But that's why we all come here... to learn form all you seasoned pros who tell it like it is!

Good Luck to you A&P, and welcome!
 
American & Proud

American & Proud

New Member
Thanks for the welcomes.
The post has been edited.

And thank you for your advice isign. I was thinking along the same lines, about hiring someone thats worked in a sign shop, and most likely I will do that.

But I am stuck in Limbo here, meaning I can't do anything until I either get hired myself or my case gets settled, thats why I am stuck sending out my resume daily and just sitting here on my butt practicing.

I can only do what my lawyer tells me I can for now.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
I figured you had some disability cash flow & you had some requirements or restrictions with that... what kind of resumes are you sending out? What work are you looking for?

If you are free to spend money building your business, but not free to earn money, can you set up a company in your wife's name, & start doing business with a break even goal, showing no earnings? And if so, can that company show labor expenses as well as material & equipment expenses, and sell just enough to cover those?
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
Rep... I can't believe you didn't say it!

A&P.. you should really invest in a Premium Subscription... you are clearly not afraid to invest in this business project, so if you want to get the most out of this site, you can subscribe to see all the content, which in turn helps support the site so it will be a continuing resource for yourself & others!
 
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