• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Question looking for advice for a first time digital printer purchase

Cyclynn

Cyclynn

New Member
Hello, helpful people. I've been in business for 18 years, happily subcontracting my digital printing out. I'm at the point, though, that I am overpaying for small prints, and so I am considering purchasing a small digital printer. Can anyone give me advice as to how to proceed? I've looked at the Gerber FX Edge, and rejected the thermal print idea. I looked at the Roland 20", which has integrated contour cutting (but no laminating). My supplier said there was a local company (sort of - only 100 miles away) that sells Mutoh. That would be closer than any Roland dealer. Plus... should I consider a 54" printer? My supplier is urging me to consider that for ease of supply, but I'd really like to focus on a smaller printer. I'm interested in a machine that prints and cuts, but what about laminating? Is there a type of printing that renders laminating unnecessary? I am a small shop in a small town, 70 miles from the nearest urban area. I've never done digital printing, so ease of learning is probably a good consideration. Can anyone help, please? Lynn
 
petepaz

petepaz

New Member
we have rolands and love them but that doesn't mean they are the best. you should check out a few and see which works best for you.
i would agree you want to get a 54" printer because you can always buy smaller material but if you get a smaller printer in a few months you will be kicking your self for not getting the bigger one. one reason we prefer the roland is because we have print cut units. some people say that slows your production time but we don't have that issue.quality of printing i think they are all similar. also look a t the rip programs and see what they do and which one you are most comfortable using
 
Solventinkjet

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
A used Roland SP300V or SP300i would be perfect for you. They are 30" printer/cutters. If you want to go with a new machine, Mimaki has a good 30" printer/cutter combo in the CJV150-75 model. I think you might be a little confused on the laminating part of things. The workflow happens like this: You print your image with registration marks included, then you laminate, and then you reload the print back into the printer and contour cut. The printer has an optical sensor that can read the registration marks and cut accurately after laminating. Some people laminate absolutely everything that they make which is over kill and a big waste of money. Solvent inks are durable outdoors for at least 3 years without laminate and I see them lasting much longer in a lot of cases. There is no reason to laminate a temporary yard sign or banner for example. It does make stickers look more professional in my opinion however and if it's a bumper sticker that will be going through car washes it is better to laminate. So it basically comes down to a few factors but mostly how long do you want it to last and what kind of conditions are present at the installation site.
 
A

AKwrapguy

New Member
Cyclynn said:
Hello, helpful people. I've been in business for 18 years, happily subcontracting my digital printing out. I'm at the point, though, that I am overpaying for small prints, and so I am considering purchasing a small digital printer. Can anyone give me advice as to how to proceed? I've looked at the Gerber FX Edge, and rejected the thermal print idea. I looked at the Roland 20", which has integrated contour cutting (but no laminating). My supplier said there was a local company (sort of - only 100 miles away) that sells Mutoh. That would be closer than any Roland dealer. Plus... should I consider a 54" printer? My supplier is urging me to consider that for ease of supply, but I'd really like to focus on a smaller printer. I'm interested in a machine that prints and cuts, but what about laminating? Is there a type of printing that renders laminating unnecessary? I am a small shop in a small town, 70 miles from the nearest urban area. I've never done digital printing, so ease of learning is probably a good consideration. Can anyone help, please? Lynn
Click to expand...

Almost anything other than banner you will probably have to laminate. As far a printer, latex might be a great fit for you and HP has a print/cut, [HASHTAG]#bigfishDM[/HASHTAG] has deals all the time. We made the transition from eco-solvent to latex about a year ago and it's been the best decision. With the latex you wont have to worry about waste ink, fumes, or waiting for prints to gas off. Down side is that it might be a little bigger than what your looking for. But do some research, it worth looking into.
 
T

Terry01

New Member
Starting out, find yourself a Roland SP540v. It will allow you to print larger signs once you are comfortable with the printing process. The Sp300 and Sp540 run all the same gear in them and are user friendly and easily maintained or repaired if you are hands on. They are an older type machine but one of the most reliable around. The lower price of purchase gives you and excellent stepping stone as the latest printers and their price need plenty of work rolling out of them before they pay for themselves. As stated in other posts, it happily takes 30 inch media, if you are only doing small stuff, but if the occasion arises, you can comfortably print 4 foot wide for 8x4's or banners and larger. Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
N

Nanci

New Member
I was in the exact same place as you are 6 months ago. I was all set to purchase a Roland 30 print and cut. There were some promotional sales associated with the sign shows earlier this year, and a Mutoh dealer contacted me and talked me into the Mutoh 1624 64" with the 400 ml inks. I ended up buying it, with an entry level 64" laminator from Master Laminator separately. I couldn't be happier. You'd be surprised how often you use the 54" length. I've been in the business for over 30 years, started out hand lettering back in the seventies. I bought a Roland PC 600 years ago, and got burnt badly, those machines were a $10,000 waste of time. So I was feeling a bit shy about taking the plunge and getting my own printer. I've only had this one a few months, but it's easy to maintain, pretty cheap to run, and the quality is excellent. I already had a new Graphtec plotter that I bought last year, so that made the decision easier for me. If you can, go as big as you can afford. About a dozen people told me that before I bought, and I'm glad I listened.
 
M

mark galoob

New Member
I’ve had a mutoh 54” printer going on 8 yrs now. I love everything about it except when it breaks which is very rare. I have to eat a few days to get it fixed. My printer tech is astonished this thing still runs as well as it does. I won’t hesitate to buy another printer when this one dies...
 
Christian @ 2CT Media

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
I'd saw go with a latex for ease of use and flexibility. You can get their new print/cut package in 54" as a 115 for around $10,500 or 315 for around $14,000 if you need more features.

I can attribute a lot of our growth and success on the flexibility that Latex has provided. We have grown significantly due to our output speed we could provide along with quality. Some may not agree and to each their own but we wouldn't be the shop we are with out latex.
 
U

unclebun

Active Member
On another note, it might not be that you are overpaying on small jobs, but undercharging....you'll find that out when you have to operate your own printer.
 
E

Emd2kick

New Member
OP you are all over the place on these forums. Some post that you want to get out of the business....something about buying a CNC router or digital printer to spice things up (at your husbands dismay). And this question is way too vague.

Deep breath, how about some research and more specific questions? What are you outsourcing exactly that you want to bring in house? Did you do the math to verify a purchase makes sense (based on how the question was asked I’d say no)?
 
H

HighlandSigns

New Member
Cyclynn said:
Hello, helpful people. I've been in business for 18 years, happily subcontracting my digital printing out. I'm at the point, though, that I am overpaying for small prints, and so I am considering purchasing a small digital printer.

I am a small shop in a small town, 70 miles from the nearest urban area. I've never done digital printing, so ease of learning is probably a good consideration. Can anyone help, please? Lynn
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much it the same boat as you, 100 miles from the nearest city and 22 years doing cut vinyl only. Not disrespect to the guys giving advice regarding the economics of purchasing the equipment, but being in the city or being in our situation makes a big difference. There comes a point where you need to decide to make a long-term investment in your business hoping it will grow, or else get out and do something else with your time. It's not like in the city where you can bank on X number of jobs equals X profits, so let's buy another machine, etc.

I've been on the fence for awhile whether I'd but the HP115 or a used Roland 540, but apparently the HP sale is over so that sealed it for me. I'm going to buy the Roland 54" and a 54" cold laminator. Looking at prices of whats available, there's really no point buying a 30" printer, as the 54's are more readily available, and are out there at good prices.
 
Last edited:
I

ikarasu

Active Member
As you've noticed... You're going to get a recommendation on every type of printer/size. People tend to recommend the machine they purchased.. .Because that machine is whats best for them. Instead, you need to look at the pros and cons of each printer, and type.

You looked into thermal printing and threw that out, which is good. Now theres solvent based, Latex based, and UV based printing.

Do you own your own shop? Or will this machine be in your basement? Kids/animals around? If it'll be in your basement and theres kids or animals... Latex is the way to go. If it'll be in its own shop space, either 3 will work.

As far as laminating... It all depends on what you do. Are you printing stuff that will be replaced within a few years? Or high end stuff stores would like up after 7-10 years? I personally think a professional shop should have a Laminator... its the only way to produce longevity, and it helps make it glossy and look good.

Budget? Speed needs? The Latex 115 print/cut option is cheap, it's a bit slow... But unless you plan on printing more than 1 roll every 8 hours, it's the perfect printer for starting out. Learning curve is easy...Headstrikes/other mistakes most newcomers have will be user fixable/replaceable, and wont cost $2-3000 to replace a head.

I would get the 54" if you have space though. 54" Material is the easiest to come by... AND you have the option of doing larger jobs. You could do wall murals, car wraps, etc. Even if you dont do that stuff now... Having your own machine opens you up to more options, so you may buy a 30" now.. then next year want a 54".

Lots, and lots of threads about which printer to buy. I think we should have a pros/cons of each printer type as a sticky, it'd be helpful to all the new people!
 
H

HighlandSigns

New Member
ikarasu said:
Do you own your own shop? Or will this machine be in your basement? Kids/animals around? If it'll be in your basement and there's kids or animals... Latex is the way to go. If it'll be in its own shop space, either 3 will work.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything in your post. I'm in the same position as the original poster, the HP115 might be the most logical choice for me, but I decided on a used Roland 54" eco-sol printer 540i. Not because it's the absolute best choice for me, but because a 15k investment versus a 22k investment makes a big difference (that's including the laminator). The 540i has 7 pinch rollers, and I'm sick and tired of babysitting heavy vinyl through my plotter, so that HP basic plotter with 3 rollers was really scary for me. The Versaworks software is also more compatible with my library of customer's sign files, and seems to be a more familiar environment for us to learn (Signlab 5 to Versaworks). The Roland dealer is the same guy who set me up 22 years ago, so I know he will support me through the growing pains and silly questions.

My question to you is, are the fumes that much of an issue? Some say yes, and others say it's complete exaggeration with eco-sol. We aren't going to be printing flat-out all day, it a small family business. The printer is in my basement and it's an open-concept house with no door to the basement. That being said, we are 2-stroke cold smoke kinda people with no kids, and a bit of smell isn't going to cause any drama in our lives. Just wondering what to expect.

Overall, there is much to consider, and it's a big decision for a small business owner.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
The smells get pretty bad at times .we have two huge exhausts hooked up to our printer, and we can still smell it .Does the basement have windows, or some other way to vent/air it out? If so you might be ok.

Its not just the bad smell... The fumes are toxic. Lots of people have been around the fumes for years with no problems, so it MAY not be an issue... But to put it into perspective, lots of hospitals are starting to limit it to like 20 sqft if any at all, media printed with solvent... That's media that's been offgassed and laminated, because they found it causes development issues in children/teens. So even if the smell doesn't bother you, that doesn't mean your not damaging your / your family's lungs.

I have a solvent at work, and while I do prefer latex, I have nothing against solvent... That said I don't think I'd ever bring one into my home around my family. I used to get scratchy throats and headaches when I didn't turn the vent on our printer.

I only have experience with one eco solvent printer, and it's a huge 74" beast. Roland's may be gentler, so I can't speak to that. I know their ink formulation is different and they have an ecosolvent they say is green and non harmful, not sure if it's available for your printer though.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
You may want to also consider the added time and labor it takes to run the machine. When you order prints, they just show up ready to apply... When you print, you have to consider the time it takes to setup, monitoring the printer, laminating and contour cutting, redoing things that get messed up. Don't underestimate the learning curve to laminating.

For now I've elected to keep Outsourcing because I don't have any extra time in the day to take on more functions. Sometimes I outsource things I can do in-house with cut vinyl because of the time constraints. Some jobs may only make me $60-$75 per hour doing everything in house vs. $150+ just doing finial assembly. Costs a little more but it allows me to get higher profit work done rather then waste time producing what can be done cheaply by someone else.
 
Last edited:
H

HighlandSigns

New Member
Texas_Signmaker said:
I get so confused why OLD Sp300s or 540s are just a few thousand cheaper then a brand new 54 latex.
Click to expand...

It's almost twice the price, they want 16K CDN for the HP115 bundle this month, plus inks and feed roller another $2500.

Regarding the outsourcing, when you're in an isolated community it changes the equation. If you're in a large city with a good working relationship with a reliable shop, it's a different matter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top