Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Question manufacturing date vinyl

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by nico, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. nico

    nico Member

    50
    1
    8
    Oct 25, 2017
    chl
    Hey guys, this is probably a noob question:

    I just got a roll of adhesive vinyl from 3M (IJ15-20) and noticed the manufactured date is from 2 years ago, I'm just worried about it because of "shelf life" I've already had problems with other media which were apparently bad because of not being used in a long time, should I worry about it or is this a "normal" that the roll has been stored for this long.

    I was told this is a monomeric calendered roll, I'll be testing it for stickers and decals printed with HP Latex.

    Thanks!
     
    Tags:
  2. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

    29,793
    1,086
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    I wouldn't want it. Ask then if you get a two year discount.

    While vinyl will last outside from 3 to 9 years, for some reason, it only has about a 2 year shelf life.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

    852
    246
    43
    Jun 10, 2016
    Port Coquitlam, bc
    Expected Performance Life of 12 months (unwarranted period for unprinted film with no graphic

    Seeing as how the bulletin says it'll last 12 months outside... I'd say it being 2 years old prior to getting it is a big red flag.


    And then under shelf life:

    Shelf Life The shelf life is never more than 1 year from the date of manufacture on the original box. If you process the film, the shelf life is changed to 6 months from the processing date.



    That said... we have some vinyl that's 6 years old. It's still as sticky as the day we bought it... But we know the shelf life is there for a reason, it gets used on temp projects, stuff we/the customer doesn't care if it fails within a year.


    https://www.antalis.cl/mediashare/g4media/pdf/TS_EN_3M_SCOTCHCAL_GRAPHIC_IJ15_IJ16.pdf Show this to your supplier. Ask for a very hefty discount if you're willing to keep it.


    I never even knew 3M makes a 1 year vinyl... If you keep it, let me know how it works out for you!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. asd

    asd Member

    228
    5
    18
    Aug 13, 2007
    colorado
    why take a chance if you have doubts about the quality of the product, why use it to begin with, not only are you going to waste your time and maybe application tape, send it back to the vendor and request a new roll.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. nico

    nico Member

    50
    1
    8
    Oct 25, 2017
    chl
    thanks for the input guys, appreciate the help. I agree, I'm going to request them to change it before even opening it or testing it.
    best,
    nico
     
  6. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

    4,980
    299
    83
    Dec 27, 2005
    Guam USA
    If they give you a hard time ask them if they'd like you to pay for it with a credit card that expired - about 2 years ago.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. ams

    ams Very Active Member

    1,675
    153
    63
    Oct 28, 2010
    Virginia
    Manufacturers say 2 years, but it's a guideline and they can sell more vinyl that way. I've used 4 year old vinyl and it's worked fine and held up. Once the edges on the roll shrinks 1/8" then it's pretty serious. But also it's how you take care of it. If it remains in a perfect 75 degree temp 24/7, then it will last a long time. if in the winter you turn off the heat on the weekends and it gets 35 degrees in there or even in the summer 90 degrees, you will have a ton of issues.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. CIE_Sparrow

    CIE_Sparrow New Member

    6
    4
    3
    Jun 18, 2018
    Prague
    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  9. nico

    nico Member

    50
    1
    8
    Oct 25, 2017
    chl
    GAC05 was right they actually did give me hard time about it so I'm just keeping it because I couldn't stand being in the phone for over 20 mins discussing it with Antalis tech support, if there's any trouble with it then I'll guess I'll just have to go through it all over again so they change the roll (if there's any problem with it).
    It's a monomeric cheap roll, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
     
  10. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

    852
    246
    43
    Jun 10, 2016
    Port Coquitlam, bc
    Can't imagine being in a country with only crappy suppliers. Our supplier would have no issue taking it back...

    I'm not sure if 3M warranties that vinyl type, but if they did... The warranty would be expired and garbage.

    You should be fine with it, I doubt it'll give you problems... But as I said, no warranty... So they should at least give you some sort of discount.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. signbrad

    signbrad Member

    260
    102
    43
    Jun 15, 2014
    Kansas City
    Storage conditions can easily affect shelf life. If a supplier's warehouse is not temperature controlled, shelf life of vinyl can be shortened. What happens is the adhesive layer becomes contaminated as the vinyl ages. This is from plasticizer migration from the vinyl itself. It is not stoppable, though more expensive plastics may contain more expensive plasticizers that are better at resisting migration. High temperatures in a warehouse will speed up plasticizer migration.

    I am a little surprised a supplier would be selling 2-year-old stock.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. CIE_Sparrow

    CIE_Sparrow New Member

    6
    4
    3
    Jun 18, 2018
    Prague
    It isn't bad question.

    Sorry, I already wrote it once, but I erased the content. I had problems with the nomenclature in english :) now it should be better.

    The biggest problem is not in the adhesive or aging of the polymer itself, but in the surface tension. Therefore, all of the polymer should be processed in a year, and therefore the warranty for printability is only one year.

    All polymer material in roll (PVC/PP/PET/PE) have in last step of production process surface treatment by corona. It is a high-voltage arc that emits ions and ozone, disrupts the surface and thus forms reactive centers.

    This reactive centers is very important for ink adhesion on the polymer. If you have technology with ink that have low polar components (especiality ink on water base (old latex without optimizer) or bad formulated ink....older version of some UV LED inks and many more) you may have problems.

    After 6 to 12 months, reactive centers are deactivated. (adsorption of the impurity atoms). The surface tension of the polymer drops, thereby changing the polar components and the number of bonds and changing the contact angle of the ink droplet and Ink will be have weak adhesion.

    Deactivation speed is dependent on temperature, ambient and storage conditions. But the material can be considered deactivated after one year. The biggest problems with deactivated surface is in PE / PP / PET polymers, in PVC are not so big problems - polar Chlorine (PolyVinylCHlorid).

    I had same trouble maybe one months later. Before 8 months I choise new UV varnish for our UV liquid coating machine. But i make mistake, I tested new liquid varnish at new supply of polymer(PVC)... last month problems started with adhesion on this materials

    I had to change the varnish and start modifying by the adhesion promoter.


    Return it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. signbrad

    signbrad Member

    260
    102
    43
    Jun 15, 2014
    Kansas City
    Good information, nico.
    I wish manufacturers volunteered more information like this.

    Your explanation is understandable even if English is not your mother tongue.
     
  14. CIE_Sparrow

    CIE_Sparrow New Member

    6
    4
    3
    Jun 18, 2018
    Prague
    You are very kind, my English is very poor.
    For studying and work I did not have time for improvement english.
    At the end of the year, I'm going to some English-speaking country for a year to learn English better.

    I'm glad I wrote it so it could be understood :)
     
  15. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

    852
    246
    43
    Jun 10, 2016
    Port Coquitlam, bc
    Your english is better than some people I know, who have been in the country for 20 years! And to top it all off, you were giving a technical explanation with a lot of words most people don't use everyday. Your explanation was informative, and easily understandable, thanks!
     
  16. nico

    nico Member

    50
    1
    8
    Oct 25, 2017
    chl
    agree with signbrad and ika, thanks for that CIE! also your english is totally fine, us (who speak english as a second language) most of the time tend to be overcritical about pronunciation and grammar (at least that's what happens to me), so don't worry too much about it, good luck with your year abroad sounds fun! ;)
     
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...