Any one have any luck with a recovery service that claims they can recover print heads? My Value Jet's black is banding and i need to do something soon. Not looking to spend $$$$ on a new one... any suggestions would be welcomed. I have tried everything to help recover the nozzels but no luck.
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Mutoh 1204 Print head bands
- Thread starter Lovejoy
- Start date
FatCat
New Member
When you say you've tried "everything" does that include replacing the maintenance station? Does that include head soaks? Does that include you've unhooked the dampers and used a syringe and line to gently push solvent through the head? (There are other methods if you search the Mutoh forum....)
IF you've tried everything realize it may or may not work for you depending on your situation. If your head has been used hard and/or is over 3 years old it may just need replacing. Heads have a set nozzle life and after so many billion shots they're toast anyway and no amount of cleaning will recover them. If your head is less than 3 years old and/or doesn't have a ton of mileage on it then it may be worth trying. I've never personally used a head recovery service, but if you're mechanically inclined you can basically do the same thing with a $60 ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight.
Good luck to you.
IF you've tried everything realize it may or may not work for you depending on your situation. If your head has been used hard and/or is over 3 years old it may just need replacing. Heads have a set nozzle life and after so many billion shots they're toast anyway and no amount of cleaning will recover them. If your head is less than 3 years old and/or doesn't have a ton of mileage on it then it may be worth trying. I've never personally used a head recovery service, but if you're mechanically inclined you can basically do the same thing with a $60 ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight.
Good luck to you.
thanks Fat Cat for the reply.. when you say unhooked the dampers and used a syringe and line to gently push solvent through the head? (There are other methods if you search the Mutoh forum....) I did not do this. I'm not completely sure how to perform this.. Should I just unhook the black (what is banding) and gently push some cleaning solution through to the print head?
FatCat
New Member
The syringe deal would be a "all in" type of move and should only be used as a last resort as in if you broke the head doing this, you were basically planning on replacing it anyway.
First, you really need to figure out "why" your black nozzles aren't firing in the first place. Can you answer some of my first questions please? Need to know how old is the printer, how much use it gets and if you've ever replaced your maintenance station. Also, please visually inspect your drain lines to make sure there are no blockages. Is everything spotlessly clean around the head and MS?
Usually, if you're losing black nozzles you don't have a good seal between your head and cap top, particularly on the left side of the cap top. Or, your lines are plugged and not maintaining vacuum on the head. Or, if you've recently replaced any dampers or fiddled with any of the fittings on the lines, etc. you could be looking at a leak somewhere. Other than that, I could only guess.
Really would be helpful if you could list out when this started happening and what you've done to try to remedy it.
here goes...
The machine is about 3 years old. I have had the head replaced 3x when it was new. The 3rd time they replaced the ms. That fixed it all. After that some time later about 6 months... after i was out of warranty my black began to band little by little it got worse.. now it is terrible (one of my not so experienced workers let the black run out and left the machine running just hung on k out message, when I got back to the shop the machine had sat like that for two days. I had to flush the lines with the cleaning ink carts and it cleared it up but my black was shot after that) I have to add other colors to mix w/ it to get a decent black. I have tried to soak the head and cleaned all around the ms. My black is pretty bad. I have to print uni and quality 1. I appreciate any suggestions and steps you think I should take.
The machine is about 3 years old. I have had the head replaced 3x when it was new. The 3rd time they replaced the ms. That fixed it all. After that some time later about 6 months... after i was out of warranty my black began to band little by little it got worse.. now it is terrible (one of my not so experienced workers let the black run out and left the machine running just hung on k out message, when I got back to the shop the machine had sat like that for two days. I had to flush the lines with the cleaning ink carts and it cleared it up but my black was shot after that) I have to add other colors to mix w/ it to get a decent black. I have tried to soak the head and cleaned all around the ms. My black is pretty bad. I have to print uni and quality 1. I appreciate any suggestions and steps you think I should take.
FatCat
New Member
OK, after hearing all that it definitely paints a better picture for me of what is going on.
IMHO I feel you've got real problems in your black. (duh) But I mean the problems that likely only a new head will cure. If your employee let the ink run out AND it's been sitting, then you're likely dealing with ink dried inside the channels of the head, not just on the surface of the nozzles which is far easier to fix. Can you get this cleaned out, I don't know. But at this point you likely have nothing to lose by trying.
Now, FWIW I had a similar issue when I bought my used 1604 this summer from someone that didn't take care of it. In fact, when I went to inspect the machine for the first time it had been sitting for over 3 weeks without being turned on!!!! The black lines were absent of ink and when I finally got that figured out both channels of black only had about 10% of the nozzles firing and the other colors were about 50%. After weeks of hard work, head soaks, flushing lines, and eventually manually flushing the head with a syringe by pushing/pulling fluid through the ink manifold -AND- gently swabbing the head surface itself!!! Eventually I did finally get the black back to about 95% of it's nozzles firing and the other colors are all 98% or better. So there may be hope for you...
So the question becomes should you try this?...I feel you can, but it depends on how committed you are. The quick fix to get your machine back up and printing would be to just replace the head - and depending on your business, might be the best scenario. To be completely honest you're pretty much looking at a new head already. If you do it yourself it will take days, more likely weeks to get everything resolved - if it can be. HOWEVER, I want to stress that if you attempt to clean it yourself please don't blame me should anything go wrong. OK?
The 1204 presents unique challenges because there isn't much room to work in there compared to my 1604. So if it were me, shipping your head somewhere to let them do the ultrasonic cleaning may be your best bet with the least hassle. However, if you want to try it yourself go buy an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight and go that route. My thinking is that the ultrasonic waves will break up the dried ink inside the channels of the head. From that point I would try to gently push/pull cleaning solution through the head by hooking up a syringe to the head manifold using a piece of drain line. I must stress that GENTLY is the key word. You will not see a "stream" of fluid coming from a DX5 head like you would a DX4 with bigger nozzles. If you're doing it right you'll see it slowly pool on the bottom of the head plate and then drip. Again, not sure what kind of tools you have or parts, but when you run solvent printers you should have all kinds of things on hand like extra ink and drain lines, extra dampers and various syringes and cleaning swabs. (I've basically got a small tool box built around servicing both my printers.)
Realize to clean the head you have may take several attempts of ultrasonic cleaning, flushing, etc. After you put it back in the machine and get it back up and running continue to do print checks and measure any success. If you're gaining nozzles, keep going. You may need to pull it out and do another round of ultra-sonic and cleaning, etc. Once you stop seeing improvement that will likely be the point at which your head will be as good as it can be.
So, ultimately the choice is yours. Go the easy, expensive route and just replace the head. Or go the more involved, cheaper route of cleaning it yourself with no guarantee you will fix it. Sadly, those are your choices - but it is what it is....
Good luck to you.
IMHO I feel you've got real problems in your black. (duh) But I mean the problems that likely only a new head will cure. If your employee let the ink run out AND it's been sitting, then you're likely dealing with ink dried inside the channels of the head, not just on the surface of the nozzles which is far easier to fix. Can you get this cleaned out, I don't know. But at this point you likely have nothing to lose by trying.
Now, FWIW I had a similar issue when I bought my used 1604 this summer from someone that didn't take care of it. In fact, when I went to inspect the machine for the first time it had been sitting for over 3 weeks without being turned on!!!! The black lines were absent of ink and when I finally got that figured out both channels of black only had about 10% of the nozzles firing and the other colors were about 50%. After weeks of hard work, head soaks, flushing lines, and eventually manually flushing the head with a syringe by pushing/pulling fluid through the ink manifold -AND- gently swabbing the head surface itself!!! Eventually I did finally get the black back to about 95% of it's nozzles firing and the other colors are all 98% or better. So there may be hope for you...
So the question becomes should you try this?...I feel you can, but it depends on how committed you are. The quick fix to get your machine back up and printing would be to just replace the head - and depending on your business, might be the best scenario. To be completely honest you're pretty much looking at a new head already. If you do it yourself it will take days, more likely weeks to get everything resolved - if it can be. HOWEVER, I want to stress that if you attempt to clean it yourself please don't blame me should anything go wrong. OK?
The 1204 presents unique challenges because there isn't much room to work in there compared to my 1604. So if it were me, shipping your head somewhere to let them do the ultrasonic cleaning may be your best bet with the least hassle. However, if you want to try it yourself go buy an ultrasonic cleaner from Harbor Freight and go that route. My thinking is that the ultrasonic waves will break up the dried ink inside the channels of the head. From that point I would try to gently push/pull cleaning solution through the head by hooking up a syringe to the head manifold using a piece of drain line. I must stress that GENTLY is the key word. You will not see a "stream" of fluid coming from a DX5 head like you would a DX4 with bigger nozzles. If you're doing it right you'll see it slowly pool on the bottom of the head plate and then drip. Again, not sure what kind of tools you have or parts, but when you run solvent printers you should have all kinds of things on hand like extra ink and drain lines, extra dampers and various syringes and cleaning swabs. (I've basically got a small tool box built around servicing both my printers.)
Realize to clean the head you have may take several attempts of ultrasonic cleaning, flushing, etc. After you put it back in the machine and get it back up and running continue to do print checks and measure any success. If you're gaining nozzles, keep going. You may need to pull it out and do another round of ultra-sonic and cleaning, etc. Once you stop seeing improvement that will likely be the point at which your head will be as good as it can be.
So, ultimately the choice is yours. Go the easy, expensive route and just replace the head. Or go the more involved, cheaper route of cleaning it yourself with no guarantee you will fix it. Sadly, those are your choices - but it is what it is....
Good luck to you.
I think I will replace the head.. but I do need to mention that I have three print heads. Two like new that they changed when the machine was under warranty and the ms was bad.. but they began to band, So should I try to do anything with these two? Can they be recycled or sold?