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New flatbed advise

Hi everyone! I'm new on this forum, we are on the market for a new flatbed printer, our budget is from 185K to 285K, speed and cost per square foot is main factor, service and ROI, since 85% on our prints are corrugated plastics some aluminums and PVC, we currently have a Gerber Solara ION X, opinion will be very appreciated!

thank you
Daniel Quiroz / Delivery Signs LLC
Orlando, Fl
 

chafro

New Member
These two are very good printers for the money. Also they are two platforms already proven to work. There are some with better quality but you need to spend more money. For coro work I say hp could be your best option since it's a belt fed printer.

Hp700 (around 200k)
acuity select hs XL (oce) ( around 250k)
 

chafro

New Member
Ohh and make some samples with your coro brand to make sure the inks sticks to it. Some inks don't stick well to coro or peal when you cut it.
 

LarryB

New Member
I have a HP FB500 and it prints great on coro. Inks stick great. Very easy to operate and very reliable. I've had mine for 10 months now and have only had 1 minor issue. Runs every day with no problems. With your budget I would check out the 700. Should be around $135k depending on options.
 

Jacob

New Member
We have had our hp fb7-- for a little over a month now. We have been Sh**ing out coro with it. Ink stick great. I know its new and shinny but i love it so far
 

DravidDavid

New Member
Care to elaborate on that comment....?
With pleasure! :Big Laugh

We got our hands on the printer in August last year. It worked flawlessly until about November.

- First it was the power supply for the computer. It likes to pop. We are currently on our third one. For the record...A 450W FSP power supply (not known for their reliability) on Oce's price sheet is roughly $1000. I could pick the same thing up at 600W for $86.00. Luckily we are under service contract.

- Second thing was the lamp power supply. One lamp dropped out mid print for what seemed to be no reason at all. At this point, we think it might be dirty power. The printer has it's own 16 amp feed from the mains. Electrician said it was all fine. Techs replaced the power supply, all good.

- Next issue was the lamp housing for the other lamp. That was replaced after that lamp refused to fire. All good.

- Seized extractor fan on side panel near the computer.

- Then the pressure gauge started sticking. We have no idea how, but crap got in the lines and stuffed the gauge. The techs had never replaced a gauge and sent a second guy out to check before replacing it. Apparently it's the first gauge replaced in Oce history for the 250GT.

- Next issue was a head problem. "Ink heat system problem" is what I found one morning and refused to heat up. We replaced the coolant and it worked fine...For about a week. The weeks leading up to this issue, we noticed the temperature slowly crept up on us. What was normally 46.8 or 47.1 degrees turned in to 49 and then 50. Then 52 degrees and the problem struck again. Turned out something was stuffed in the Magenta head. $6,500 dollars later it was sorted.

- Once the head was replaced we started seeing serious misdirection in Yellow (which was a new head before it was shipped to us) which also had ink pooling around it in the morning when I got in to work. Techs said it was un-related. I can't say it is, but I can say before the install of the new head it was fine.

- Next came ink vacuum. Again, I came in to work to find "Ink vacuum system problem". Imagine my surprise when it said the ink vacuum was "high" and that the pump was reaching end of life. But apparently, wouldn't be causing any issues with heads.

- Then the magical random printing in the no printing zone. I was moving the gantry, vacuum off, print queued and "waiting for table vacuum." Note our printer does not have a roll feeder, nor the firmware to run one currently installed. It has a de-ionizer though. Somehow, magically...When the printer gantry had parked in resting position, it decided to skip the de-ionizing process and the lamps fired. Because of the way the table curves, the head was moving over nothing but thin air and flooded the place with UV light and left a majestic ploom of rainbow like mist behind. It printed my crop marks of the file I was printing on the edge of the printer. Awesome. This is something nobody seems to be able to explain. Techs said it was probably just "confused."

- Table vacuum started leaking. Turned out to be two of the valves under the table that control the zones. Fairly common problem apparently...Not too fussed as this problem only costed me half a day of printing rather than a day and a half.

- Here comes another lamp issue. Lamp fan assembly sounds sickly. Making a rattling raspy sound as if one of them had blown a bearing. All of a sudden before I could get to the control panel, the print stops and says "Right lamp problem". The tech plugged his authorization thing in and found it was over-heating. Filter was immaculate (as I complete my weekly maintenance properly) so we took the lamp out. They have about 500 hours on them and they are "seriously degraded" according to the technician. There is also a thin metal wire that had snapped. When touched it shattered in to 100 pieces. I asked the tech what it did and he had no idea. I thought they were supposed to know these things!

I could go on.

Current issues:

- Magenta reservoir takes forever and a day to fill after a purge compared to the other tanks.
- Severe banding now suspected to be degraded lamps after confusing the techs with my immaculate test prints (bar the "faulty" yellow head)

To give you a time scale...This all occurred between November somewhere and yesterday. Quite a lot considering you are trying to get something done, or is this just normal? We keep being told it's such a reliable machine, but I've yet to see it.

And that is my life story, haha!

Cheers!
 

DravidDavid

New Member
Yikes.... sorry to hear about your troubles. :covereyes:

I hope you get it sorted out, or maybe they realize it's a lemon and just give you a new one? I really think printer contracts should have a "lemon clause" in them for situations like this, and others I've heard about. It seems like there are always a couple of horror stories about each kind of printer on here... which makes me realize there's always a chance you'll end up with a lemon, regardless of the manufacturer.

I've looked into the 318gl and the samples and specs are very impressive, although I've yet to see one run in person yet.

I hope so too. No lemon policy I'm afraid. Going to ask them though and watch the look on their face. That's going to be funny!

We can only thank ourselves for taking out the policy in the first place. If a lamp housing is $5,000, basic power supply is $1,000+ and a lamp power supply is $8,000 dollars...We have already made our money back on that contract! Watch that change when it's time for renewal. Although, I don't think we will be at this rate.
 

Tom Dalton

New Member
Hi everyone! I'm new on this forum, we are on the market for a new flatbed printer, our budget is from 185K to 285K, speed and cost per square foot is main factor, service and ROI, since 85% on our prints are corrugated plastics some aluminums and PVC, we currently have a Gerber Solara ION X, opinion will be very appreciated!

thank you
Daniel Quiroz / Delivery Signs LLC
Orlando, Fl

We have a Gerber Cat/UV and heard a rumor that the ink manufacturer will stop making the inks for it in about 6 months. I hope that isn't true.

I just went to ISA's International Sign Expo and I was amazed by the number of $80k to $120k flatbeds. Back when we got the Gerber Cat/UV, it was about the only one in the $80-$90k price point. I saw a number of them under $100k.

We're looking a a bit higher price range.
Some I was tempted by:
Mimaki JFX200-2513
Agfa Anapurna M2500
CET K500
Targa UV
TeckWin
EFi VUTEk QS3
HP FB700

UV printer manufacturers really are in a crowded market. The main things we're look for with our next printer is speed and longevity of print quality. Our CatUV print quality has diminished over time and its not worth buying new heads. It would be nice if we had one that you could flush with a super hot solvent that will flush just about any type of clogs out of the heads and bring them back to "day one" condition. I know a guy that owns a Gandy digital printer and he said his can never be "permanently" clogged because its built for a DIY hot solvent flush. Then again, I heard that Gandy might be going out of business soon. I also don't want another printer that is discontinued two weeks after we purchase it (eg: Gerber UV Flatbeds).

T
 

DravidDavid

New Member
If I'm not mistaken, the Fuji Acuity machines are the same as the Oce Arizona series printers. Otherwise, good poll!
 

MagnificentBastid

New Member
Another +1 for the HP FB700. We've been printing tons of everything and its great. The only issue we ran into was with static, but have since got it taken care of.

EDIT: added to the poll
 

neil_se

New Member
We've been running our HP FB500 for 2 years with no issues. A sensor was replaced in the first few weeks and the touch screen needed replacing a few weeks ago but I was able to continue operating while HP shipped me a new one at their cost. Sticks great to coro and PVC, aluminium composite causes problems though.

We don't have the same range of choice in Aus though, finding someone with local support is important (although we haven't required much luckily).
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
Have you seen the Jetrix UV flatbeds? It's distributed by Seiko and Polytype USA and the quality is pretty great, it's worth checking out that's for sure.
 

jkline

New Member
We also are looking-need advice and feedback please

We are a metal fab sign company and outsource all our printing. We are looking into flat beds specifically printing on substrates like acrylic and thin alum and even textured materials. We visited a CET demo, went well, now researching HP, OCE and Vutek. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks much.
 

gurvich

New Member
If you go for Oce Arizona machine you should be aware Canon does not provide print head warranty even on the first year.
We one two machines Oce Arizona 360XT and Oce Arizona 660GT.

And I can say that so many issues we had with 660GT machine we never had before ever.
360XT runs like tank. We 600 series machine we have constant problems with data cable connect printer carriage to mainboard.
In service time it was changed 3 times. Also we had fight with Canon about missing nozzles on yellow print head. Suddenly 8 nozzles stopped to fire. Fortunately for us we had issured all our equipment and insurrance company covered this fault.

Canon has very good marketing but you rather go for SwissQPrint it`s more solid investment.
We also use VUTEk H2000 Pro it`s more solid but the main problem is not trube flatbed.

Honestly Canon is only comapny which does not provide warrant on the print heads.
And they told only when we bought the machine...

How cool is that :) ?
 

jkline

New Member
Oce flat bed issues pan out?

Stay away from Oce Arizona series flatbeds.

Mine literally just broke again upon viewing this thread. :|

Hi, I read you elaboration posts on your issues you had. How did this pan out in the long run? Did you get taken care of? Are things all squared away? Printing good? What model?
We are trying to choose between and OCE 460GT or a CET Q5. So far I have seen more trouble issues with CET over Oce, but not alot of them. But CET's were say a bit uglier.
We did some shop visits and saw both in action and were satisfied with the quality of print. We are not looking for production speed but quality and durablity of print. We mostly do themed graphics signs. Not large format/photogenic type prints. Substrates we print on are acrylic, alum and faux textured finishes like faux wood, rustic looking metals. Usually with a Matthews paint base coat.
Mostly our stuff we would farm out for screen print but want to bring that work back in house.
Thanks for your time, would love some feedback.
 

DravidDavid

New Member
Hi, I read you elaboration posts on your issues you had. How did this pan out in the long run? Did you get taken care of? Are things all squared away? Printing good? What model?
We are trying to choose between and OCE 460GT or a CET Q5. So far I have seen more trouble issues with CET over Oce, but not alot of them. But CET's were say a bit uglier.
We did some shop visits and saw both in action and were satisfied with the quality of print. We are not looking for production speed but quality and durablity of print. We mostly do themed graphics signs. Not large format/photogenic type prints. Substrates we print on are acrylic, alum and faux textured finishes like faux wood, rustic looking metals. Usually with a Matthews paint base coat.
Mostly our stuff we would farm out for screen print but want to bring that work back in house.
Thanks for your time, would love some feedback.

It's an Oce Arizona 250GT. I'm very happy with print quality, especially when the heads are at 100%.

Most of the issues have been ironed out. But our brand new magenta head is expressing exactly the same issues as the previous "broken" head did. Our techs put it down to bad maintenance, but literally every other head under the machine is immaculate and without issue. Yellow still seems to have an ink demon tapping the lines and drinking it all still. We go through yellow like crazy. We still get "Ink Vacuum System Problem" on start-up. And that message occurs more frequently as time goes on.

The printer still has this magical ability to print outside the print zone from time to time. It doesn't get very far before I hit Emergency stop. Nobody believed me and said it was impossible the first time around!

That said, since that post it has be "running reliably". As in we haven't had to get a technician out for a major issue that stopped me working for half a day to a day. Even though Magenta is a bit stuffed, it still prints well. But if I was given a new choice, I probably wouldn't pick the Oce. That said, by the sounds of things Oce is still the better choice. As you said, people seem to complain about a lot of more serious things with other machines.

I highly recommend a maintenance contract of some description if buying second hand too. :)
 

jkline

New Member
Did you learn much about the Mimaki?

We have a Gerber Cat/UV and heard a rumor that the ink manufacturer will stop making the inks for it in about 6 months. I hope that isn't true.

I just went to ISA's International Sign Expo and I was amazed by the number of $80k to $120k flatbeds. Back when we got the Gerber Cat/UV, it was about the only one in the $80-$90k price point. I saw a number of them under $100k.

We're looking a a bit higher price range.
Some I was tempted by:
Mimaki JFX200-2513
Agfa Anapurna M2500
CET K500
Targa UV
TeckWin
EFi VUTEk QS3
HP FB700

UV printer manufacturers really are in a crowded market. The main things we're look for with our next printer is speed and longevity of print quality. Our CatUV print quality has diminished over time and its not worth buying new heads. It would be nice if we had one that you could flush with a super hot solvent that will flush just about any type of clogs out of the heads and bring them back to "day one" condition. I know a guy that owns a Gandy digital printer and he said his can never be "permanently" clogged because its built for a DIY hot solvent flush. Then again, I heard that Gandy might be going out of business soon. I also don't want another printer that is discontinued two weeks after we purchase it (eg: Gerber UV Flatbeds).

T
Hi, were thought we may be sold on the Oce 460Gt ( choose over CET Q5 ) but then got thrown a curveball about the MimakiJFX200. Did you do much research on that one? Have anything to share about it? We are looking for more quality that speed. We are into printing more themed art styles on acrylic, alum substrates and faux finishes/textured materials. We do work for themed entertainment parks, casinos, etc. Also some backlit light up signs as well. We usually farm our stuff out for silkscreen or direct print. Any info would help what you have acquired in your research.
Thanks much.
-Joe
 

Tom Dalton

New Member
Any info would help what you have acquired in your research.

We purchased the CET flatbed. I'll give you my input in two weeks. A CET tech is coming here to do some modifications to our set-up. Depending on the outcome of those adjustments, I'll have a clearer idea on my recommendation.

T
 
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