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new UV flatbed

Discussion in 'Roland' started by petepaz, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    going to see a demo on the new uv flatbed printer tomorrow
    if all goes well we will soon be in the uv printing business
    (other than silk screening, already do that...haha)
     
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  2. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    What kind and where ??

    You're in New Jersey. Why don't you do yourself a favor and not make any decision until the Atlantic City show ?? By that time you'll need to spend money to take care of taxes and they really wheel & deal down there. I usually buy all my big ticket items at something like that. In fact, we got our flatbed from the Atlantic City show, but on a different model. They were giving a good price on a 4 color machine, but we went with a 6 color and made out like bandits.... in my opinion. No matter what you pay, you'll be happy as long as you get the machine to fit your needs. There are differences and they don't become apparent until after you purchase the thing, unless you have some really good knowledge ahead of time.
     
  3. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    we aren't definitely buying yet but we have been looking for a long time, testing materials researching price so this is just another step on our journey but we have yet to find the machine that meets our needs without emptying our wallet this one seems to be the closest so far
    thanks for the input
     
  4. parrott

    parrott Member

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    Haven't seen the Roland in person, but it seems way over priced for what it is (I could be wrong). Looks like they added roller tables on both ends of their roll to roll and reduced the speed. I was completely under whelmed when they released the pictures and specs.
     
  5. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Gino did you ever get another FB?
     
  6. SignManiac

    SignManiac Major Contributor

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    Having been burned twice with hybrid printers, I'd seriously shy away from any printer that uses friction pinch rollers to move the media. May be fine for light poster board but heavier media will tend to slip and that causes all kinds of issues. Check on the Roland and see what the heaviest weight is they recommend.
     
  7. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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    I know this will sound like a broken record (I do not sell any of these printers), but I would encourage you to look at MILANO, CET COLOR, HP, OCE, VUTEK...
     
  8. cdiesel

    cdiesel Very Active Member

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    I was very unimpressed with the Roland UV printer too. Pinch rollers to move rigid media is a bad idea, and this printer is SLOW. The ROI on a more expensive, more capable printer would be much better.
     
  9. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    agreed on the grit roller. maybe a transfer belt. using a grit roller to move the media is nothing but extremely lazy engineering. extremely lazy. the issue is slight warps in media create not just high spots but create upward energy onto the pinch/springs. this results in reduced friction at that location. if there is a mild high spot on one side of the sheet, the opposite side will be pulled with more force, like rowing a boat on just one side and the piece will slightly rotate. then adjust and feet in a mild diagonal. either attempting to walk away from the right fence, or feeding into the fence creating more friction at the front corner. also with grit rollers, higher the likelihood that undulations in the substrate will give to the pressure. i have air tables so the sheets just hover into the machines. all the weight is right at the grit roller but that pressure is then distributed across the platen. if a company wants to do a grit system for rigid, they should about three grit rollers fore and aft the main one, not only to eliminate friction but to eliminate the sheets ability to skew. one axle can spin in a circle, place two or three axles on a grid and they can only go straight. you'd think that the engineers would at least do a little more than the ability to raise the heads. so many failed machines that were just about $2000 shy of actually working properly.
     
  10. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    thanks for the info, will keep all that in mind when making our decision
     
  11. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    No, the deal fell through... or I should say the guy fell through.
     
  12. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Deal for the big job, or the deal for the flatbed?
     
  13. Pacific Coast Sign

    Pacific Coast Sign Active Member

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    Have you considered a roll to roll printer and an applicator instead of a flatbed? The cost for the combination is usually less than a flatbed and the print life is longer for outdoor signage. Here is an expensive combination: Roland XC-540 roll to roll printer: $31,495.00. A RollsRoller flatbed applicator that is large, lets say the 64" by 11'9" is $35,865.00. The combination is $67,360. That is about the price of the Roland LEJ flatbed printer. So why go this route? Well from what I have seen, the maintenance costs for most flatbeds is around $10,000 a year or so. The UV inks don't last as long outdoor. They are slower, unless you really step up the price. The Roll to Roll is more versatile in sign making... etc etc etc. It just seems to me that most sign shops are really convinced that a flatbed printer is the ultimate in production equipment... I'm not sure I'm convinced. Please don't take this like I'm trying to sell you something, I'm not, you are out of my territory anyway. Just trying to help out as far as seeing the whole picture. You can go to YouTube and see the RollsRoller in action... genius machine. If you are looking into the flatbed for specific applications then disregard all this, however you might want to check out the videos anyway.
     
  14. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Deal for the job fell through. I don't think they found the order any cheaper, I think the guy went out of business suddenly. He's actually disappeared off the face of the earth. The deal for the flatbed was a sweet one. I would've had to put a large hole in our wall to fit it in, but had the job remained, it would've been worth it.... well worth it.
     
  15. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    You shouldn't be trying to sell anything either, you're not a Merchant Member.

    Much of what you say is true, however, they're only half truths. Cost has nothing to do with the end product if the end product can be achieved with far less labor and material costs. Since we've gone with a flatbed, our sales have skyrocketed and it has nothing to do with longevity of ink, speed of the machine or the maintenance program involved. It has to do with the market we service and who really needs a flatbed print vs. a roll to roll inkjet print. Etc, etc is just another way of saying you have no facts to back up your statements.... other than some utube thingie again.
     
  16. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    i am lusting at the thought of a true flatbed. you could cut some acrylic, any shape, polish the edges, drill the holes! everything that jeopardizes the part, then print! flip the part and with pinhole registers print directly on the opposite side of the part! gahh! with a pinch roller system all those pinch wheels pressing down making lines in my substrate that the ink can react to. or try flipping the part so the opposite side can be scraped mercilessly across the platen. there is no comparison at all between the two feed systems.

    and over printing! say a color didn't come out right or whatever. create a quick file and double print that area only without the sheet ever moving!

    the roller tables are cool. mountain graphics in houston has zero flatbed printers. but it does have about three massive roller tables. so maybe they are wise to the whole system. but for exotic fabrication, the flatbed is the holy grail of printers.
     
  17. Pacific Coast Sign

    Pacific Coast Sign Active Member

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    Ouch

    Hey Gino, I'm sorry if you feel that I have said something controversial here. I really was just trying to show other options. As you can see for what I said, if there is a specific reason, like you seem to have, then a flatbed is the option. However, most sign shops, and I deal with hundreds in my area as a service technician, don't need the flatbed.

    Sorry again for obviously upsetting you. Not my intention. Oh and your right, I shouldn't be, nor am I trying to sell something on the forums here. Just showing another option.:peace!:
     
  18. mortil

    mortil Member

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    if i can cut in a little on this uv printer thingy.

    i talk a lot with the mimaki sellers here and i know that you should not just trust a salesman directly so i qould like to check with you guys

    the UJV-160 would that one work for printing on glass ? and do anyone have one and is it any good ?
     
  19. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    we have xc-540, vp540 and gerber edge also a laminator we are just looking to move to the next level. plus we make a lot of control panels/overlays on polycarbonate so we are hoping to find a machine to do the lower quantity and multi color /4 color procees jobs because they just take to long when silk screening and the bog down the shop (part of that is because the main guy who manages the silk screen dept is slow as sh*t, does great work but slow)

     
  20. petepaz

    petepaz Major Contributor

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    with a pinch roller system all those pinch wheels pressing down making lines in my substrate that the ink can react to. or try flipping the part so the opposite side can be scraped mercilessly across the platen. there is no comparison at all between the two feed systems.

    and over printing! say a color didn't come out right or whatever. create a quick file and double print that area only without the sheet ever moving!......more good points all stuff we will be checking
     
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