One of "those" guys...software? What's that?

[Newsignguy]

So, after reading many of these threads now, I can say that I probably have approached this a little in the wrong direction, but hey, everything is fixable right?

I started out as another couple companies needing sign work done at a reasonable rate...found one local guy whose price was twice that of any other shop that quoted me..ok, note to self "quit waiting until last minute for signs".

Then I found a hand painter that did small vinyl jobs for a very reasonable price..Swweeet!! Only the signs (20 door signs) took sometimes 3 weeks to get... Ok, again..get stuff ordered in advance. No problem.

Now..my sign guy decides he is retiring...son of a...

So, now that one of my companies is slowing down to a lack of market, I figure this will be a good spot for me to step in and pick up the slack in the basic vinyl sign sales/service. I have a big interest in sign making (love creating), the shop room, I have retail space..what more could I need, right?

Most of you can see where this is going..lol..

I figured ok, I can run Corel and do a lot of my own stuff that is sent off to be printed, I can do basic signage. I went and bought a basic? GCC 24" Cutter and ordered up a bunch of 3mm vinyl.

This stuff is still enroute to me, no biggie. But, now I am reading that I may need other programs to create a cutting path from Corel to my cutter??

edit- Ok, apparently it comes with "great cut". At least this is a good lead into my many other questions/issues that are sure to arise.

This will probably be the first of many "dumb" questions...but I am not afraid of a bit of heat..

Thanks all, and i look forward to seeing you on the forums often!

Dennis.

 

[SAS]

Welcome

 

[SignManiac]

Well good luck to you. You have a long road ahead of you. Scratching the surface in this business can take a good ten or more years, but if you find it fun, then enjoy it!

 

[mountaingraphic]

Good Luck

Well I would like to start off saying "Welcome to the World!" its a very challenging, rewarding, teadious and trying avenue and you will be your worse critic. The devil is in the detail and I for one am not anyone to be getting advice from however I have been down the rabbit hole you are heading and wanted to offer some first hand advice.

1st- DO NOT TAKE orders until you know what your doing and have a good understanding of how your equipment and software works..Not trying to discourage as everyone wants some R.O.I but you will begin your decent downward by producing poor signage quicker than you will by waiting and learning as much as you can before you begin.

2nd- Re Read step 1..I know they have cash in hand and are willing to pay you for that 1 color graphic that is easily done..Seriously you'll have bumps and bruises before you walk or even crawl for that matter so no sense in tarnishing your business name right off the bat.

3rd- You will need to be able to take criticism no matter how rough and always learn from it.

4th- Okay so you have a general knowledge of your software and equipment and you're ready to start..Not really..You need to set ground rules i.e your shop rate,terms, and compare yourself in the market to see if what your pricing is going to sell at what you require to work for. If your a 1 man band then organization is going to be the make it or break it..Customer files, email approvals, credit terms, supply purchases and many many other things all go into 1 sign and need to be handled in a way that makes you appear like you know what your doing even if in fact your just winging it.

This is not meant to discourage you in anyway but just some things I have found that I could have done differently and wanted to offer some advice.

Mountain

 

[BobM]

Welcome from Cape of Cod. Study hard, pratice harder.

 

[iSign]

Well I would like to start off saying "Welcome to the World!" its a very challenging, rewarding, teadious and trying avenue and you will be your worse critic. The devil is in the detail and I for one am not anyone to be getting advice from however I have been down the rabbit hole you are heading and wanted to offer some first hand advice.

1st- DO NOT TAKE orders until you know what your doing and have a good understanding of how your equipment and software works..Not trying to discourage as everyone wants some R.O.I but you will begin your decent downward by producing poor signage quicker than you will by waiting and learning as much as you can before you begin.

2nd- Re Read step 1..I know they have cash in hand and are willing to pay you for that 1 color graphic that is easily done..Seriously you'll have bumps and bruises before you walk or even crawl for that matter so no sense in tarnishing your business name right off the bat.

3rd- You will need to be able to take criticism no matter how rough and always learn from it.

4th- Okay so you have a general knowledge of your software and equipment and you're ready to start..Not really..You need to set ground rules i.e your shop rate,terms, and compare yourself in the market to see if what your pricing is going to sell at what you require to work for. If your a 1 man band then organization is going to be the make it or break it..Customer files, email approvals, credit terms, supply purchases and many many other things all go into 1 sign and need to be handled in a way that makes you appear like you know what your doing even if in fact your just winging it.

This is not meant to discourage you in anyway but just some things I have found that I could have done differently and wanted to offer some advice.

Mountain

great post... but my copy of it IS meant to discourage you... because if you want to start selling yourself as a professional & business owner, in an industry you have never even been someone else's flunkie in yet... then you SHOULD be discouraged at the chewing you just bit off..

..anyone who would not be discouraged at this juncture, is simply not paying attention!

but good luck!

 

[Techman]

Vinyl sign end is just about dead. That said.. Good luck.

 

[CentralSigns]

Vinyl sign end is just about dead. That said.. Good luck.

With Techmans reply, you may be in a bad position. The next step is $15K. This is the purchase of a printer that will be obsolete in 5 years. Welcome and good luck.

 

[binki]

get a heat press and do apparel vinyl on shirts. that is where the bank is.

otherwise, good luck on this. we spent nearly 2 years studying cutters before we got into it and our focus was and is still apparel vinyl. We do cut vinyl for decals, storefronts, and such but the garment biz 90% of what we cut.

look up merrritt graphics for anything you cannot do yourself and learn to install.

good luck.

 

[Newsignguy]

Thanks all for the replies, welcomes, and warnings.

This isn't the end of the world for me if it doesn't fly, just something I have wanted to do, and currently have a market for. Industry is dead here, and our economy is low...many don't have the need/funds for the fancy banners and such, but are requesting a decent vinyl door sign, coroplast event signage, etc...at a decent price. I think I can offer that. I have two other companies that I operate on a daily basis, one service, one retail, so I have the business end of it down.

Binki nailed down my addon to the vinyl, as I have a decent market for simple shirts...so yeah, a heat press is on the agenda as well.

What I do have going for me on the positive end, is a friend/employee who was working for the overpriced signmaker and knows (some of) the ins and outs of signmaking..I am really hoping my retired guy will miss it enough that he will come help out just to keep busy

But don't worry, you will know how I am doing by my posts and questions here...lol

 

[Techman]

who was working for the overpriced signmaker

How in the hell can any signmaker be overpriced.

That is about the most irritating thing I hear. No signmaker is over priced. Every signmaker should be getting as high a price as possible.

If you are not getting at least what that guy is/was getting then you in the wrong arena..

 

[iSign]

How in the hell can any signmaker be overpriced.

That is about the most irritating thing I hear.

If you are not getting at least what that guy is/was getting then you in the wrong arena..

gotta agree with techman here... you see, this is where we get scolded for being unfriendly to newbies, but why should we be friendly to you so you can cut in line and start competing in this market, without so much as lifting a finger to learn a god damn thing before pawning yourself off as a professional... you are not a professional, and the pro's here would MUCH rather help the guy you plan to undercut... we have NO DESIRE to see you succeed when you only purpose in this business was to get out of paying a true professional the living wage he needed to sell signs to your other business... send him, we will help him against the challenges of the likes of you... we don't want to help the likes of you... you are the enemy... you represent all the things we must fight against every day to put food on the table...

go now

 

[Newsignguy]

How in the hell can any signmaker be overpriced.

That is about the most irritating thing I hear. No signmaker is over priced. Every signmaker should be getting as high a price as possible.

If you are not getting at least what that guy is/was getting then you in the wrong arena..

I have gotten three quotes from him for different signs in the past...he has come in over double, on every single one, than 3 out of town sign shops.

For example 3 simple (all the same), one color, "name on the door with phone number" type signs... Should I pay 450 dollars for that?? When others consistently quote 200?

I don't feel I need to be getting even close to what he is attempting to charge to be in the right arena. There is a reason people are going out of town for this type stuff.

 

[Newsignguy]

gotta agree with techman here... you see, this is where we get scolded for being unfriendly to newbies, but why should we be friendly to you so you can cut in line and start competing in this market, without so much as lifting a finger to learn a god damn thing before pawning yourself off as a professional... you are not a professional, and the pro's here would MUCH rather help the guy you plan to undercut... we have NO DESIRE to see you succeed when you only purpose in this business was to get out of paying a true professional the living wage he needed to sell signs to your other business... send him, we will help him against the challenges of the likes of you... we don't want to help the likes of you... you are the enemy... you represent all the things we must fight against every day to put food on the table...

go now

I was more than happy paying a professional to make signs at a fair price...unfortunately he retired. But I refuse to be gouged, as do many others here, so they are taking their business out of town.
I am going to attempt to learn an artform that will fill the needed gap...as well as put food on MY table. If charging a fair price is undercutting, so be it.

Oh, and I haven't once touted myself as a professional. I came here to learn the trade..if you don't want to help, I am plenty ok with that. There are many here I am sure, that will.

 

[CentralSigns]

This isn't the end of the world for me if it doesn't fly, just something I have wanted to do, and currently have a market for. Industry is dead here, and our economy is low...many don't have the need/funds for the fancy banners and such, but are requesting a decent vinyl door sign, coroplast event signage, etc...at a decent price. I think I can offer that. I have two other companies that I operate on a daily basis, one service, one retail, so I have the business end of it down.

Binki nailed down my addon to the vinyl, as I have a decent market for simple shirts...so yeah, a heat press is on the agenda as well.

What I do have going for me on the positive end, is a friend/employee who was working for the overpriced signmaker and knows (some of) the ins and outs of signmaking..I am really hoping my retired guy will miss it enough that he will come help out just to keep busy

But don't worry, you will know how I am doing by my posts and questions here...lol

Really worried about your business ideas. The economy is low people can't afford sign shop pricing, your words. The local shop is overpriced, compared to what ? I have a friend I'm working him for free for something to do, help out situation. This is your third job your gonna run at the same time. Several posts today on pricing too low, just today re VistaPrint. You sound like an under-cutter or low-baller as well. Maybe are you working 2 jobs and adding another cause you charge too little at all them including your new venture. Is it a good time to start with a poor economy ? Did you factor in space, employees or just your basement room. Your sort really pisses me off, price so low as to hurt the existing shop then find you can't make it and pull out just to leave no shop, just what the likes of VistaPrint wants. Get rid of everyone through low-ball business practices. What happens if the work starts to take off will you be too low to hire someone. Don't ask for my help, I'd rather help your competition too. Where did you say you were from. If you start charging too little how will you charge more without looking like a fool. Hate to say it
.

 

[iSign]

Oh, and I haven't once touted myself as a professional. I came here to learn the trade..if you don't want to help, I am plenty ok with that. There are many here I am sure, that will.

maybe... but the reasons you give for being in this business are pretty nearly in violation of membership requirements here... but if you are not lowballing to get work, maybe I'm reading too much in to this..

what are "name on the door with phone number" type signs? does this mean a pair of truck doors? or storefront doors? is $450 the price for all 3?

..ok, maybe the guy was high, but if he had a monopoly, maybe you can do better... but your first post is almost the classic post to rub our faces in the double edge sword of sharing our wealth of information here.. so many here aay help, but do yourself a favor & don't mention starting your sign shop because you didn't like the price of your local sign shop... it has a really bad ring to it...

...you may not 'tout' yourself as a pro... but once you sell your first job, you are "pawning yourself off as a professional"

 

[mountaingraphic]

As you have seen by now everyone in the business prices items different..This isn't walmart..Every item is customly made and has an overhead tacked on right off the bat..You have a power bill, internet bill, i.e so your overhead is going to be different then from say Joe Bob High Pricer which was probably a full timer trying to support a family doing this..Even if he wasn't, his prices was his prices and no one can really stipulate whats high as we ALL need/want to make a profit for our time and labor..

Also it has been beat to death on every forum you read but you honestly won't understand until you find yourself working for free but DO NOT BE THE LOWBALLER! It's not good for anyone as it will flood the market, you will be working for basically pennies trying to get ahead.

Also just because you purchased a 400 cutter and run it from your home does not mean you cannot be professional by any means but how you dictate yourself and your business is what truly makes you a professional and taking food from families mouths, regardless how high you believe their prices to be, is not professional.

Haha speaking of walmart, try going to walmart and tell them you are only going to pay $XX.XX for an item or else! Bet you'll walk out empty handed

 

[Newsignguy]

Really worried about your business ideas. The economy is low people can't afford sign shop pricing, your words. The local shop is overpriced, compared to what ?

As I mentioned, his prices were double that of 3 other shops I got quotes from. These are all professional sign shops. Why so much compared?? This is a relatively small town, word travels quickly. He is pricing himself out of work, people are going out of town to get things done.

Maybe are you working 2 jobs and adding another cause you charge too little at all them including your new venture. Is it a good time to start with a poor economy ? Did you factor in space, employees or just your basement room.

As I mentioned, I already have retail space that is catering to a dying forest industry...I already have hydro bills, I already have internet bills, I already have employees.

Your sort really pisses me off, price so low as to hurt the existing shop then find you can't make it and pull out just to leave no shop, just what the likes of VistaPrint wants. Get rid of everyone through low-ball business practices. What happens if the work starts to take off will you be too low to hire someone. Don't ask for my help, I'd rather help your competition too. Where did you say you were from. If you start charging too little how will you charge more without looking like a fool. Hate to say it
.

The gouging type of business operation pisses me off. Charge everyone double because they have no other choice. Again, this is a small town, options are limited and I see it happening with several businesses that have a monopoly. This is one that I have an interest in, and would like to learn.

maybe... but the reasons you give for being in this business are pretty nearly in violation of membership requirements here... but if you are not lowballing to get work, maybe I'm reading too much in to this..

I don't feel I will be lowballing if my pricing will be on par with other sign shops. I just won't be gouging as the local guy is.

what are "name on the door with phone number" type signs? does this mean a pair of truck doors? or storefront doors? is $450 the price for all 3?

truck door stickers. 450 for 3. I was quoted 200 installed by two other shops, and 250 by a third. How can 450 be reasonable? I ended up buying the $250 ones because they could do them for me when I happened to be coming to their town.

..ok, maybe the guy was high, but if he had a monopoly, maybe you can do better... but your first post is almost the classic post to rub our faces in the double edge sword of sharing our wealth of information here.. so many here aay help, but do yourself a favor & don't mention starting your sign shop because you didn't like the price of your local sign shop... it has a really bad ring to it...

Like I said, this won't be the first mistake I make in this whole process...my intent wasn't to come off that way, only to give some background information.

Also just because you purchased a 400 cutter and run it from your home does not mean you cannot be professional by any means but how you dictate yourself and your business is what truly makes you a professional and taking food from families mouths, regardless how high you believe their prices to be, is not professional.

So, providing healthy competition isn't professional? I hardly think I will be taking food from his family...dramatics aren't necessary. He does the full color banners, he does highway signs, he does full vehicle decals, motorcycles, etc...he has a full plate. I am planning on sticking to affordable one color vinyl, and heat press transfers eventually.

 

[J Hill Designs]

three sets of truck doors for 450 installed is looow

 

[Newsignguy]

three sets of truck doors for 450 installed is looow

Not three "sets"...just three decals. Not installed either.