Oracal Issues

[grafikguy]

We are having serious quality issues with Oracal wrap vinyls. More to the point I believe, the series 290 laminate over either their 3551 or 3951 vinyls. Inside of a year, anything that gets a good deal of sun or is on the horizontal plane of a vehicle is browning. Even worse, much of it is cracking and damaging the paint below. And, this is not just happening on vehicles, but on printed/laminated signwork. Claiming outside durability of 7 years seems like false advertising to me when I have numerous vehicle wraps failing and some pretty upset customers who spent a good deal of money with us only to see their investment falling short. This is not a gas-out issue because it occurs on unprinted areas of the wraps, as well. It is also not a high heat climate as we are located in New England. You expect a premium product like their 3951 series to last at least 3 years minimum and I find this all unacceptable. Years ago when I made the move into vehicle wraps, I did my research, much of it on this site, and heard good things about the product. Not liking the "web" texture of the 3M product at the time and having endured the recall on Avery products (which many of you probably do not recollect), I threw all my faith into the Oracal line and am now wincing at my decision. We have switched to another manufacturer, but I think I am going to feel the effects of the Oracal products for years to come. I have taken this issue to my supplier and ultimately to Oracal, who feigns disbelief that this is happening and I have not heard back from them since my first two initial complaints. I am certain that they will not cover anything under warranty and we will end up eating every one of these that comes back.

I do not expect to find a miracle cure to my issues, I just wanted to share my experiences with the product so that others do not have to deal with the same issues that we have. Be sure to make good decisions when it comes to this side of the industry because that one ill fated decision may come back on you. I have built my business for 25 years with good customer service and a quality job but could possibly suffer it's lose because of one product.

 

[visual800]

after all these years of being in business we all have dealt with product failure and , unfortunately, these companies could care less. What you are doing by posting this, esspecially after trying to contact them, is the best thing you as a consumer can do. I hope this is a "batch" issue and as history has shown me they will not cover anything.

They will argue it was "your install methods" that caused the failure. I would post on every website I could and ignore any threats by them qnd there will be threats. Its a shame they have to be like this.

 

[T_K]

I don't have much experience with Oracal printed vinyl. We've used a TON of their 651 series on fleet wrap lettering, and it's held up to the Texas heat and sun well. I still see vehicles I wrapped 5 years ago looking good.

But for printed graphics, we've only used Avery's 1005 SC with the DOL 1060 laminate. No issues so far, except for install problems when we were working in 105 degree heat in full sun. Had to touch up a few vehicles because of this, but that's our problem because the shop I worked for didn't have a bay. I definitely recommend Avery's stuff for printed wraps.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Yeah I've never seen a vinyl manufacturer stand behind their product when it counts, ever, ever, ever. It sucks but that's the reality of it. The best you can do is lean on the supplier you bought it from, but unless losing your business will cause them significant financial loss I can't see them doing much more than offer you a discount on new media.

Sorry to sound so negative, but this has been my experience, there are so many variables with vinyl graphics (type of printer, printing conditions, matching laminate, install techniques etc.) that the vinyl manufactures have a very long list of excuses as to why the product failed, and they can hold out longer than you can.

 

[Gino]

For me, our company has been burnt on several occasions, by all of the major players. Not just on printable vinyl, but regular vinyl, to inks, thermal resin cartridges to substrates. In most cases, we were put back, into rightful situations and some, not so. Oracal has played the cat & mouse game, along with many others and rightfully so, in my opinion.

Do any of you realize the magnitude of what they sell, that goes without any problems vs. what goes wrong by what so many of the hacks who shouldn't even be doing this line of work, let alone be in business ?? They hafta watch and be vigilant about the accusations that go wrong. I'll bet 95% of the reported problems are end-users application or just plain knowledge failure. Sure, some of the people complaining are justified, but if you are persistent and have photos, documentations and lot numbers, you'll be on the road to reimbursement over a period of time.

Just look around at some of the people here alone on this site, that have the same dumb questions over and over..... then look at their accusations of someone fouling up their work..... and it wasn't their fault. It's no wonder these companies do it this way.... or they'd be paying out the wazoo for imbeciles to just play around and screw things up and get paid for it....... sounds just like our government in reverse.

 

[T_K]

there are so many variables with vinyl graphics (type of printer, printing conditions, matching laminate, install techniques etc.) that the vinyl manufactures have a very long list of excuses as to why the product failed, and they can hold out longer than you can.

Don't forget them being able to blame the customer for how they cared for the wrap. "Sure you produced and installed it fine, but they didn't take care of it properly."

 

[ams]

3551 is not a cast vinyl and shouldn't be used for vehicle wraps. Stick with the best cast.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

3551 is not a cast vinyl and shouldn't be used for vehicle wraps. Stick with the best cast.

Actually, Oracal refers to this product as ultra calendared which is supposed to the best of both worlds and they themselves recommend this product for wraps, especially for going over rivets on box trucks and on mild contours. I'm not saying it's right, but the manufacturer themselves claim it's viability for wraps.

 

[oksigns]

Actually, Oracal refers to this product as ultra calendared which is supposed to the best of both worlds and they themselves recommend this product for wraps, especially for going over rivets on box trucks and on mild contours. I'm not saying it's right, but the manufacturer themselves claim it's viability for wraps.

I use this stuff everyday and would never use it for wraps.

As the manufacturer description states:

General signage, vehicle graphics requiring limited conformability and other medium- to long-term outdoor applications

I've seen this stuff shrink after being cut anywhere from 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch on a regular basis- non laminated. I actually use this and 3651 as a cheap medium term media.

 

[0igo]

For me, our company has been burnt on several occasions, by all of the major players. Not just on printable vinyl, but regular vinyl, to inks, thermal resin cartridges to substrates. In most cases, we were put back, into rightful situations and some, not so. Oracal has played the cat & mouse game, along with many others and rightfully so, in my opinion.

Do any of you realize the magnitude of what they sell, that goes without any problems vs. what goes wrong by what so many of the hacks who shouldn't even be doing this line of work, let alone be in business ?? They hafta watch and be vigilant about the accusations that go wrong. I'll bet 95% of the reported problems are end-users application or just plain knowledge failure. Sure, some of the people complaining are justified, but if you are persistent and have photos, documentations and lot numbers, you'll be on the road to reimbursement over a period of time.

Just look around at some of the people here alone on this site, that have the same dumb questions over and over..... then look at their accusations of someone fouling up their work..... and it wasn't their fault. It's no wonder these companies do it this way.... or they'd be paying out the wazoo for imbeciles to just play around and screw things up and get paid for it....... sounds just like our government in reverse.

shut up gina your always posting useless comments. keep your 2 cents and go buy oleg something something nice.

 

[Pippin Decals]

Ive been using oracal products and never had any issues unless it was something we did, We always double check the material we are going to use for the job, Just because it says it will work doesnt mean it will, There is more info that is needed and information that has to go into a finalized answer.You have to decide if it may work but will it work the best for completing the job.If we are unsure no matter what the product specs say , i contact Product Support Specialist Tim Wright @ Orafol
888-672-2251 x168
912-851-5007 direct
.He has been so helpful and he has actually took the time to test a product for me to see if its made for the job at hand i have ,He just doesnt sit behind a desk,He is a hands on guy when it comes product questions etc and then he contacts my Rep to let them know of any new findings etc.. I suggest you contact him.. Oracal(Orafol) has always taken care of my problems with no issues....And i have had no problems at all with their products yet... just specific concerns when installing on certain things..

 

[Snydo]

Are you claiming 100% failure over multiple rolls of material, one roll, 1/5 of a roll?
Not calling the OP a hack by any means, but I mostly agree with everything Gino said. I am not a scientist nor a chemist but I have my doubts as to whether any cast vinyl could destroy a factory paint job, a spray can paint job on Bondo... yes.

I'm fairly certain if you had a known bad lot of material, at the very least Orafol would replace the media used on the job.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Are you claiming 100% failure over multiple rolls of material, one roll, 1/5 of a roll?
Not calling the OP a hack by any means, but I mostly agree with everything Gino said. I am not a scientist nor a chemist but I have my doubts as to whether any cast vinyl could destroy a factory paint job, a spray can paint job on Bondo... yes.

I'm fairly certain if you had a known bad lot of material, at the very least Orafol would replace the media used on the job.

I don't have my doubts as I had Cast wrap vinyl & laminate (one of the top 3...i'm not saying) somehow burn the customers pain on their door when we removed the wrap to sell the truck. The ink placement seemed to affect it as well. Nothing in this industry will surprise me even if it's from the Most expensive highest quality manufacturer in the Universe.
Stuff can happen. As Gino said.

 

[SightLine]

I know for an absolute 100% fact that when vinyl starts to brown that it most definitely will permanently damage a factory paint job. The roof of my personal truck is trashed from matte black material going bad up there. There are permanent brown stains in the paint all the way through the clear coat and the color base coat. It also degraded the cleat coat so bad that in a few spots the clear came off with the vinyl. I've also seen this on customer vehicles - particularly with heavier metallics - once they start to brown or get any brown spots you better remove it immediately. I have seen Ford Taurus (like 2012 model police cruisers) where we have tried everything to remove metallic silver that had started turning.... as careful as we can be using a steamer, plastic blades, MBX zapper, various vinyl removal chemicals. None really work and in places the factory black paint comes up with the vinyl and where the paint does not come up it is permanently ruined with a texture of sorts.

We tell customers that if they take care of their graphics to get the maximum life and promptly have them removed at the first signs of degradation that the graphics protect and preserve the original paint. If left on after there are any signs whatsoever of degradation like turning brown, cracking, etc that the graphcis then start to destroy the original paint instead of protect it.

 

[WB]

I had similar problems a couple years ago with 3951GRA and 290G. The laminate faded, cracked and turned yellow. it was blamed on off gassing even though there were white panels in that wrap, Pieces that never touched the printer went straight from the roll to the laminator. What was really strange is that the lettering/logo that were printed and laminated that were laid over the white area were less effected and they came from the same rolls of media.

 

[ams]

Actually, Oracal refers to this product as ultra calendared which is supposed to the best of both worlds and they themselves recommend this product for wraps, especially for going over rivets on box trucks and on mild contours. I'm not saying it's right, but the manufacturer themselves claim it's viability for wraps.

I wrapped my van with it and it was a failure. The channels didn't stick and look bad and now it's starting to peel and crack after one year.

 

[getcustomized]

I was thinking about using the Orajet 3551 and 290G laminate for a flat trailer wrap(no rivets). All nice flat surfaces but if this 290G starts to crack and fail I'll be screwed.

 

[MikePro]

ultra/high-performance calendared, is still calendared.
calendared is produced like taffy, mushed around & stretched to shape, and it naturally wants shrink over time.

 

[Pippin Decals]

Contact this guy at oracal. His name is Tim Wright. He is a Product specialist with them .I have contacted him before regarding an issue with a product and he is amazing.. He actually did a personal test for me as well as the ones who do product testing at the plant...Product Support Specialists - Graphic Products

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Using unmatched components like a calendared printable vinyl and a cast laminate is probably what they are going to say. You only get the expected life if you use it correctly. 3M, Oracal, Avery all have matched component systems or some derivative of this name. Using materials that expand and contract at different rates then eachother can cause even a 7 year vinyl to fail before the estimated lifespan.

When you see a freeway sign and the clear anti graffiti is pealing off it's ususally because they used a something like a Hexis EC film and a 3M 1160 or something like that. Both are good materials but together they don't work as they are supposed to.

 

[Jester1167]

Never had problems with wraps printed on 3951 and 290 until it was time to remove it. You'll lose your behind removing the vinyl then the adhesive. Never again...