Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Pan face without metal brake

Discussion in 'Installation Equipment & Techniques' started by Texas_Signmaker, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    2,248
    859
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    I had a request for a 3'x6' metal pan face sign mounted on a brick wall. I don't have a metal brake. Would there be anything wrong with mounting ACP to angle on all for sides using VHB and then wrapping the printed vinyl over the face and the angle so you wouldn't see the seam? Is there any other way to make a pan without having a metal brake?
     
    Tags:
  2. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

    30,779
    1,520
    113
    Jun 7, 2006
    PA
    Anyone can make a Mickey Mouse kinda job, but doing it right means having the correct equipment and knowhow.

    Do you really think if you showed your drawings to an engineer or codes officer..... tape and vinyl holding this thing together would fly ??

    The best way to do this, if you don't have the break is to find someone who does and have them make it for you...... or just settle for something rinky-dink as you're exploring.​
     
  3. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

    1,322
    374
    83
    Oct 10, 2014
    Florida
    Lightly score the material on the brake line with a cut off wheel, put that line on the edge of a worktable, clamp a strong straight edge to it and the table along the line, then bend the side hanging over up. A local sheet metal or machine shop will do it too. We used to get pans done all the time (for a different application) until we bought our own brake.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    2,248
    859
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    Have you tried to remove a sign mounted with VHB?
     
  5. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    2,248
    859
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    Thanks I'll give that a shot on some scrap and see how it goes.
     
  6. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    2,443
    1,373
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    track saw with 45 degree blade

     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. JR's

    JR's Very Active Member

    2,828
    86
    48
    Sep 6, 2007
    swansea Ma 02777
    Hey Texas,
    if you do not have a duct work fabricator close by or metal Fab that you could sub the bending to
    you could try the small breaks they use for aluminum trim. Someone was talking about that on here before.

    My first choice would be subbing it out.And have them tack the corners. And I have used Alupanel with success

    does your supplier carry Alupanel?
    If so here is a PDF I believe paragraph or page 7 explains on how to bend it.
    I've done this before you have to buy the special router bit. It works okay.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. signbrad

    signbrad Member

    322
    133
    43
    Jun 15, 2014
    Kansas City
    Texas signmaker,

    Using angle aluminum for returns on aluminum pans is how I was taught to do it at one large electric sign shop. This shop had three fulltime sheet metal fabricators, but they were kept busy doing more important jobs. They did not like to stop what they were doing to make a pan face. They showed me how to make pans so they would not need to do it.
    They did not want me tying up the power brake, so I was instructed to use angle aluminum, 2-inch or 1-1/2-inch. I was also taught to make a notched-type corner rather than a 45-degree miter for the corners. They said it looked better. But I suspect they didn't want me to tie up the miter saw, either, but use the bandsaw instead. I could make pans all day long on a back table and I was in nobody's way.
    My angle returns were always welded to the faces. I used a bench punch to poke a series of 3/8-inch holes along the length of the angle, on 8-inch centers or so, then after clamping the angle to the back of a face of .063" aluminum, I put a small weld in each hole. Pans can be made very quickly this way once you get the hang of welding .063" without burning through, and the returns are strong for a solid installation if you hang the sign from the top and bottom returns. And this allows for no visible fasteners on the face.
    VHB tape could have been used instead of welding, of course, but this shop did not like the slight gap. Lord adhesive would work, too, but there is clamp time. Welding is the quickest.

    If you use ACM panels with angle aluminum returns you will have a black edge from the ACM. Is this why you would want to wrap the edges? You might find that the black edge is really not objectionable.

    I was also taught to use angle aluminum returns to make pans with radius corners. You simply cut the angle short of the radius and wrap a piece of 2-inch .080" around the curve on the back side of the radius with small welds to the face spaced an inch or a little less apart.
    It is easy to make odd-shaped pans this way, too, an impossibility with a brake.

    My sketch shows a corner radius return tied to straight angle aluminum returns. I know it looks like a pain in the rear to fab a corner this way, but it's much quicker than you think when you do it a lot. And I don't know of any other way that is practical. Even if you have to do a little sanding around the corners to flush the edges nicely, it's still quick. And once painted it looks great.

    Brad in Kansas City
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 5
    • I Appreciate You I Appreciate You x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

    1,835
    80
    48
    Feb 27, 2012
    Dallas, TX
    Yep....attach 1½" or 2" aluminum angle to your 3'x6' flat face. Use LORD adhesive. Good to go.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

    6,893
    435
    83
    Mar 12, 2005
    New England
    If you don't have any of the tools mentioned, which it sounds like you don't, then Moze's suggestion would work fine. Or use some 1"x1" aluminum tube, the lightweight stuff sold for sign frames that has corresponding corners and tees, put stock .040 aluminum angle on the frame and a piece of .040 aluminum on the face.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Rocco G

    Rocco G Member

    89
    9
    8
    Feb 27, 2014
    Pennsauken NJ
    Ditto for what signbrad said though I usually use 0.100 or 0.125 for the face panel for larger pans. I don't see why ACM wouldn't work nicely for a pan. 2 x 2 x 1/8" angle is plenty strong enough. You can go smaller depending on your needs. You can either use a Lords style adhesive or weld it but a good quality VHB should do the job just as well for a smaller pan like you propose. I've made these with angle and aluminum sheet up to 4' x 12' and have seen larger. TBH, I think it makes a nicer pan (crisper edges and corners) than when done in a brake.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Z SIGNS

    Z SIGNS Active Member

    913
    72
    28
    Feb 14, 2009
    Trenton NJ
    angle vhb'd to ACM makes a nice sign..looks nicer than floppy brake formed sheets that usually look wavy.You can paint the angle or wrap it.Sometimes we turn the angle inwards so you don't see it..this is a nice look too.make a frame to go on the wall drop your sign onto it.Never had a failure with vhb...just use the right one.Brake formed pans are from the 80's
     
  13. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

    2,248
    859
    113
    Oct 21, 2016
    Frisco, TX
    Sounds good,. Looks like I'll go with a Mickey mouse sign.
     
    • Hilarious! Hilarious! x 1
  14. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

    2,443
    1,373
    113
    Dec 9, 2015
    buffalo ny
    I have made a lot of these and also for directionals with a 2"x4" aluminum post up the middle and double faced. pan.jpg
     
  15. signbrad

    signbrad Member

    322
    133
    43
    Jun 15, 2014
    Kansas City
    I have used components from Outwater Plastics for .040" or .063" faces with lightweight tube framing on the back. There are other manufacturers that have similar products. It's lightweight, but it's easy and cheap. An angle aluminum face frame makes a finished look.
    Looks nicer than a flat panel screwed to the wall and you can charge more.

    I have also bought corner pieces and Ts that fit the inside dimension of standard 1-inch aluminum tube. This yields a more rigid sign than the lighter weight tubing.

    Outwater Plastics
    Outwater Plastics - 2016 Master Catalog - page D-20

    Brad
     
  16. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    2,038
    470
    83
    Jun 13, 2013
    Central Coast California
    Nearly every town of any size has at least one or more sheet metal shops who for a minimal charge will brake form panfaces, weld the corners, etc. If using .063 or .080 on the size you are considering, it will be more than sufficiently rigid and once the full print covers the surface and returns, its even more rigid. We pay our local sheet metal shop anywhere from $25-75 for simple panfaces and he's done in less than a half hour even on a 4'x8'x1 1/2" which is a pretty standard alternative to a flat ACM or MDO sign we offer. Even at a finished size of 45"x93" most of our clients prefer the added depth and durability to their signs. If the situation demands a true 4'x8' we just order a 5'x10' sheet of .080.

    I can count at least a dozen other contractor customers of the sheet metal shop who have brought their sign work here just by seeing him doing our work or being at his shop while we are there dropping off or picking up, so its a win win for everybody with very little effort on anybody's part. We don't have to worry about buying extra equipment and we all benefit from working together.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. vincesigns

    vincesigns Wholesale Only ADA

    67
    20
    8
    Jul 22, 2015
    Greensboro NC
    Lord adhesive generates alot of heat while curing and will distort the plastic core of acm. That distortion will show on the face of the sign
     
  18. Moze

    Moze Very Active Member

    1,835
    80
    48
    Feb 27, 2012
    Dallas, TX
    Agreed - I missed the ACM reference....just saw 'metal face'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. mpn

    mpn Active Member

    705
    19
    18
    Aug 6, 2011
    Location
    "we all benefit from working together"

    Just had this conversation the other day. IMHO we would all do better in the long run with this little tidbit.
    Thanks Sign Brad for the detail on the rounded corners, that looks clean.
     
  20. JR's

    JR's Very Active Member

    2,828
    86
    48
    Sep 6, 2007
    swansea Ma 02777
    If you own a router you could do this.
    Fast-forward to 40 seconds into the video.
    I made pan faces like this before.
    Although on this video I like the way they make the corners better than the way I did it.

     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...