Print matching between two machines

[adamfilip]

I have a VS-640 and VP-540

Can anyone recommend a workflow on matching prints between the two printers in versaworks so i can split a job and have the same output

 

[Circleville Signs]

Good luck.

 

[hydo1]

You might start with prayer.

 

[Rydaddy]

Do you make your own profiles, if not... that would be your first step. To get close. But ultimately I don't think you will be able to run them completely interchangeably. Forge is dealing with this now with (2) FB700's.

 

[adamfilip]

hmm alright. not the optimistic answers i was hoping for..
I don't currently create my own profiles. but am willing to try it if it will help.
would switching from versa works to onyx help?

 

[jkdbjj]

Yes onyx will help if it is one software driving both machines.
With that said, making your own profiles is not as easy as one might think. Do you already have a spectrometer/densomitor? It takes about an hour to make each profile unless you have a batch scanner.

Hope that helps

 

[ForgeInc]

Yup. gotta make separate media profiles for each is my guess, even then you may not be dead on. We're hoping a high level tech that comes in next week will help us get closer, but from what I'm learning machines simply differ from one to another. That said, with separate profiles created for each we are getting pretty dang close.

 

[DRamm76]

Way to stay positive...sheesh..if it doesn't come easy then many people just get scared I guess.

It's not something that is out of the question, but it will require a little effort on your end. Are there specific jobs that are repetitive that you are looking to match? I can take a solid guess that they would look much better on an 8 color system over the 4. The machines have different print heads so designing custom profiles would be the best way to go about this.

Are the original designer of these files? If so that would make life a lot easier for you right off the bat. If these files were created using the Roland Color Library that may help also. I've done the same job using the GCVP profile on GCVP vinyl between the SP-300 and the VS-300 for a customer looking to compare the too. I got EXTREMELY lucky with this particular file when I ran it on MCVP profile on the SP and kept the VS on GCVP. That little bit of extra ink made an very noticable difference and came almost perfect.

Best of luck to you

 

[eye4clr]

This is a very common request to us color geek consultants. With only two exceptions in 18+ years, everyone bails on the idea when they find out what's really involved to make it work.

First off, you absolutely must make your own profiles. Without this baseline of control and knowledge, nothing else is going to work well enough to make it worth your effort.

Let's discuss this for one media only knowing that you'd need to do this process for each media that you want to have match on both printers.

1. control the environment. The tighter the control, the more this setup will work the day after it's setup and beyond.
2. make a unique profile for each printer/media/ink/rip combination.
3. evaluate the profiles to determine which printer has the weakest gamut. Often this is obvious, sometimes you have to make a compromised decision. This is rub part. If you think about it makes perfect sense. If you have a bucket full of water and a glass of water and you want the same out of each, all you can take from the bucket is a glass' worth.
4. setup the larger gamut system to "proof" for the smaller. This is done by having all the input profiles in the RIP setup the same using Relative Colorimetric rendering intent to each unique output profile characterizing the behavior of the output, then setting the larger gamut to "simulate" the lesser gamut also using Relative Colorimetric rendering intent.
5. relinearize often and keep the environmental controls tight. The system only matches as well as you control the variables.

The label your RIP puts on the "simulation" setting may read "proof" or something else to that effect. If your RIP does not do a good Relative Colorimetric rendering your results will be inferior.

Personally I find that if you make your own profiles, and everything is working reasonably well, the perception is that things match up well. Remember that a media profile's job is to accurately print what is in the incoming file. If each system, and each media on that system accomplish this to the best of its ability, things naturally look very similar. Not to the point that you could share a paneled vehicle wrap across multiple printers. But if you're printing something like a large run of banners and the finished output was not expected to be absolutely exactly alike, you'd be fine.

This is the general goal of a G7 process. Color based on grey balance makes the perception of different outputs match reasonably well.

 

[ForgeInc]

This is a very common request to us color geek consultants. With only two exceptions in 18+ years, everyone bails on the idea when they find out what's really involved to make it work.

First off, you absolutely must make your own profiles. Without this baseline of control and knowledge, nothing else is going to work well enough to make it worth your effort.

Let's discuss this for one media only knowing that you'd need to do this process for each media that you want to have match on both printers.

1. control the environment. The tighter the control, the more this setup will work the day after it's setup and beyond.
2. make a unique profile for each printer/media/ink/rip combination.
3. evaluate the profiles to determine which printer has the weakest gamut. Often this is obvious, sometimes you have to make a compromised decision. This is rub part. If you think about it makes perfect sense. If you have a bucket full of water and a glass of water and you want the same out of each, all you can take from the bucket is a glass' worth.
4. setup the larger gamut system to "proof" for the smaller. This is done by having all the input profiles in the RIP setup the same using Relative Colorimetric rendering intent to each unique output profile characterizing the behavior of the output, then setting the larger gamut to "simulate" the lesser gamut also using Relative Colorimetric rendering intent.
5. relinearize often and keep the environmental controls tight. The system only matches as well as you control the variables.

The label your RIP puts on the "simulation" setting may read "proof" or something else to that effect. If your RIP does not do a good Relative Colorimetric rendering your results will be inferior.

Personally I find that if you make your own profiles, and everything is working reasonably well, the perception is that things match up well. Remember that a media profile's job is to accurately print what is in the incoming file. If each system, and each media on that system accomplish this to the best of its ability, things naturally look very similar. Not to the point that you could share a paneled vehicle wrap across multiple printers. But if you're printing something like a large run of banners and the finished output was not expected to be absolutely exactly alike, you'd be fine.

This is the general goal of a G7 process. Color based on grey balance makes the perception of different outputs match reasonably well.

Wow. excellent post. Copying it now and forwarding to our pre press guy...advice like this is gold, thanks!

 

[adamfilip]

Im hoping to be able to split a job to run between the two machines. without worry
color accuracy isn't critical but it has to be close enough that the average joe wouldn't notice.
our VS-640 is running in a dual CMYK config. and the VP-540 is also CMYK. so its a4 color config. hopefully that makes things easier.. we don't currently have a spectra to do the calibration but i am willing to invest.. can anyone recommend a good model that is currently available that works with versa works.. I would prefer not to upgrade to Onyx production house and it will cost $4k but if its the only way to do it i will. I think the VS-640 with its Dual CYMK config tends to be print like the VP-540 when on unidirectional. as its head is staggered CMYKKYMC or something like that.

 

[adamfilip]

Most of the time we do create the files ourselves. I have barely worked with the roland color library. If i were to share a file that has RCL colors in it with someone else, would it just keep convert to CMYK?

Way to stay positive...sheesh..if it doesn't come easy then many people just get scared I guess.

It's not something that is out of the question, but it will require a little effort on your end. Are there specific jobs that are repetitive that you are looking to match? I can take a solid guess that they would look much better on an 8 color system over the 4. The machines have different print heads so designing custom profiles would be the best way to go about this.

Are the original designer of these files? If so that would make life a lot easier for you right off the bat. If these files were created using the Roland Color Library that may help also. I've done the same job using the GCVP profile on GCVP vinyl between the SP-300 and the VS-300 for a customer looking to compare the too. I got EXTREMELY lucky with this particular file when I ran it on MCVP profile on the SP and kept the VS on GCVP. That little bit of extra ink made an very noticable difference and came almost perfect.

Best of luck to you