Printing Gray

[Bentley Sign]

Any suggestions on matching a Gray Pms color. My grays always have a green tint. We stay busy with wraps and signs, but try to stay away from gray. Any suggestions would be great.

Joel

 

[HaroldDesign]

I print out 2" squares of black tints, usually in increments of 5%, and then write down which PMS it matches (or comes close to) and tweak from there. It's using 4cp in grays that make it take on various hues.

 

[cptcorn]

Create in house color profiles. It's the only sure fire way to print anything in/with gray. I can print stuff without even thinking twice about printing a "hard proof" to show how colors will come out.

 

[gabagoo]

and take your samples outdoors just to make sure

 

[Sparky]

and take your samples outdoors just to make sure

Don't skip this test!

 

[P Wagner]

If you are using Versaworks RIP, you can use one of the grays in Roland Color System. Short of building your own color management system, it is probably the easiest way to get predictability in printing grays.

 

[visualeyez]

If you are using Versaworks RIP, you can use one of the grays in Roland Color System. Short of building your own color management system, it is probably the easiest way to get predictability in printing grays.

Thanks for this tip. I consider myself quite versed in colormatching with verseaworks, using mainly my own methods. I have recently had problems in hitting a gray that matched a 21%K printed in grayscale on high quality photo paper from a laser printer at like 2540dpi or something (took a while to figure that out..). My media certainly did not match the whiteness or brightness of supplied media, in fact it was almost slightly blue-gray (started with arlon DPF 5490M I believe). I don't recall exactly what lam we use, but I put some on blank media to compare the difference, and it definately shifted hues towards yellow (fluorescent lighting... was the same as where the finished labels were to be installed). Anyway, I could not get a gray that didn't seem to look green compared to the sample. Maybe the combination of blue media and yellow laminate make green grays? Most likely the versaworks colors will help and printing on better media does also help.
Fortunately our custimer understood that we couldn't hit it dead on, but also understood the label would be very high quality, and would look consistant on their machines when they re-order. These were serial number labels for $2.5 machines. Oh yeah, anybody else printing scannable barcodes from a roland?

 

[Bentley Sign]

Thanks so much for the help, i will try the suggestions today.

joel

 

[jasonx]

Thanks for this tip. I consider myself quite versed in colormatching with verseaworks, using mainly my own methods. I have recently had problems in hitting a gray that matched a 21%K printed in grayscale on high quality photo paper from a laser printer at like 2540dpi or something (took a while to figure that out..). My media certainly did not match the whiteness or brightness of supplied media, in fact it was almost slightly blue-gray (started with arlon DPF 5490M I believe). I don't recall exactly what lam we use, but I put some on blank media to compare the difference, and it definately shifted hues towards yellow (fluorescent lighting... was the same as where the finished labels were to be installed). Anyway, I could not get a gray that didn't seem to look green compared to the sample. Maybe the combination of blue media and yellow laminate make green grays? Most likely the versaworks colors will help and printing on better media does also help.
Fortunately our custimer understood that we couldn't hit it dead on, but also understood the label would be very high quality, and would look consistant on their machines when they re-order. These were serial number labels for $2.5 machines. Oh yeah, anybody else printing scannable barcodes from a roland?

Yes I print bar codes. Whats the problem?

 

[cptcorn]

Thanks for this tip. I consider myself quite versed in colormatching with verseaworks, using mainly my own methods. I have recently had problems in hitting a gray that matched a 21%K printed in grayscale on high quality photo paper from a laser printer at like 2540dpi or something (took a while to figure that out..). My media certainly did not match the whiteness or brightness of supplied media, in fact it was almost slightly blue-gray (started with arlon DPF 5490M I believe). I don't recall exactly what lam we use, but I put some on blank media to compare the difference, and it definately shifted hues towards yellow (fluorescent lighting... was the same as where the finished labels were to be installed). Anyway, I could not get a gray that didn't seem to look green compared to the sample. Maybe the combination of blue media and yellow laminate make green grays? Most likely the versaworks colors will help and printing on better media does also help.
Fortunately our custimer understood that we couldn't hit it dead on, but also understood the label would be very high quality, and would look consistant on their machines when they re-order. These were serial number labels for $2.5 machines. Oh yeah, anybody else printing scannable barcodes from a roland?

It is mainly do to the white shift of different types of media... The white of the media is the light source for the ink that is laid down. This is where you get your largest shifts of color. Grays coming out green, red, etc. Since you don't build your own profiles on each of your medias, you will get a shift in color because the RIP essentially doesn't know the whiteness of the media to compensate the amount of ink it's laying down.

When you run 50% K through a rip, it will convert it to a CMYK color (look closely at the ink droplets with a loop). This is to maximize the efficiency in ink usage in combination with the GCR setting when the ink gets heavy into the black.

Any other solution is a "half-assed" unacceptable solution... People spend all of this money on all of this equipment and then skimp on the proper tools to run the equipment.

 

[jmcnicoll]

In the offset world grays are very seldom set up as just black ink and in my opinion it should be treated the same with large format printer. If you know how to balance the four colors you can get a very neutral looking gray, a cool gray, or a warm gray.

 

[Erikka@Rainier]

we ran into this problem when running Versaworks and i found a solution that worked for us on the Roland User Forums (they have tons of threads on green grays).

If you are using versaworks, do the following and then test to see if a difference has been made.

Quality Settings tab go to Color Management and put the preset to Custom
Check the box the says specify profile and ignore default then click properties
under matching method i have absolute selected for raster and perceptual selected for vector. check the box for preserve primary colors and hit ok. again, this worked for us, but may not work for others depending on RIP and file format. We run Onyx Postershop now and have zero issues with Gray.

 

[jasonx]

It is mainly do to the white shift of different types of media... The white of the media is the light source for the ink that is laid down. This is where you get your largest shifts of color. Grays coming out green, red, etc. Since you don't build your own profiles on each of your medias, you will get a shift in color because the RIP essentially doesn't know the whiteness of the media to compensate the amount of ink it's laying down.

When you run 50% K through a rip, it will convert it to a CMYK color (look closely at the ink droplets with a loop). This is to maximize the efficiency in ink usage in combination with the GCR setting when the ink gets heavy into the black.

Any other solution is a "half-assed" unacceptable solution... People spend all of this money on all of this equipment and then skimp on the proper tools to run the equipment.

Is GCR Gray Scale Replacement? or is it something different?

 

[P Wagner]

GCR = Gray Component Replacement. This controls how and where CMY inks are replaced by K ink in colors approaching and including black.

 

[jasonx]

GCR = Gray Component Replacement. This controls how and where CMY inks are replaced by K ink in colors approaching and including black.

Thanks mate just learning about profiling at the moment so I can start doing it myself.

 

[ProWraps™]

take all this advice, then lam it. oh my. how the lam shift is so much fun.

 

[Pacific Coast Sign]

Roland has a PDF for printing grays available. As your local dealer, or call Roland. If not contact me and I can email it to you.