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- Thread starter FALCON
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EvieSigngirl
New Member
We have been using various Roland Products for years Would not use anything else.
1-TrueVis newest line of Roland printers and they are junk. Big hit and miss and you can read through the pages of owners here to confirm. Some will say they love it but you will find there are a lot who do not. Roland was handing out parts to try and fix cutting alignment issues from day one on the truevis and the heads have also had various issues as well. This is Rolands first step away from Epson heads. The current winner in the digital market for color and color control are the Epson S40600 S60600 & Epson S80600 paired up with a separate cutter like a Graphtec or Summa utilizing a 3rd party non manufacture RIP. Don't get sucked into a manufacture "free rip" like versaworks if you are trying to create a real print operation as tempting as it can be starting out. Go with Flexi, Caldera, Onyx or the several others that are available. Most have demo versions to try out.
2-Soljet pro SC540/SC545 XJ/XC540 line are excellent as well but also now 10-15 plus years old. You can still buy every part for these machines still. Has 6 individual DX4 printheads. If maintained right I have seen over 30,000+ hrs on these machines and counting.... something a disposable latex would dream of accomplishing.
3-versacamm VP540/VP300 SP300/SP540 older but excellent machines has 4 individual DX4 print heads for the VP series and 2 dx4 heads for the SP series. Has been the backbone of many print shops.
The VS/VSi 300/540/640 versacamms are the newer versacamms prior to the new truevis. The head and cap top design is flawed....you will see a lot of people on here asking for help cause they loose a channel or one channel is clogged constantly after a year of use. That's partially because when you have one print head with one cap top and a channel clogs it doesn't try to clean that clogged channel when you click clean it does the complete opposite. When a VS/VSi Mutoh and Mimaki running this type of single head clogs it just sucks a lot of ink out of the least clogged channels costing you more money. So stay away from these machines even if you get one for free that isn't printing.
If you are looking at used Roland machines just know that if a seller says their machine is "still under warranty" know it means absolutely nothing. Once it leaves the original owners possession even if used for a day and then sold Roland won't cover it's warranty at all. Back in the day this was different but they tightened things up to where used/second owner machine warranties won't transfer.
If anyone tells you they love a certain brand to no end....ask them how many other brands have they used and how long have they owned a printing business or wide format printer. Often you will find people rant and rave about something because it's the only thing they have used so they have no way to compare it.
Last. Don't buy a Mutoh or a Latex machine. Mutoh hasn't changed their design in years and the newer ones run the same VS/VSi problematic print head. With the latex the print quality is junk from a grain and color output point of view in comparison to the Epson S40/60 and especially the S80. You also can't fully control a latex machines profiles like you can any solvent machine. Some will claim to love latex and it will work great for them for their line of work/industry but solvent still offers better print quality and complete color profiling control that is CONSISTENT. You will find with latex that color output is effected by the amount of print time the printheads have. So customer comes in you print a panel in July and they come back and want a reprint in November on the same printheads in the latex machine the colors can come out shifted. Dry times are irrelevant across the board for solvent....if you need something more dry go grab a cheap external heater and bake the print as it comes out of the solvent machine and it will be dry and ready to go immediately more than it already is.
Go look at the S40 Epson and a separate cutter You can grab a new S40 for about $9k after their constant rebates they never end. If you want a larger color gamut go look at the S80600 Epson.
rjssigns
Active Member
Don't buy a Mutoh hmmmm..... I'm looking at my new 1624x as I type this. Very happy with the speed and quality. Solid colors look like cast vinyl, no exaggeration. Take up reel is incredible too.
Biggest thing with ANY printer/equipment purchase is service. My Mutoh was purchased from one of the top rated dealers in the nation. They are also within a half hour of my shop.
Does no good to get the "deal" only to find you need to fly someone in to fix it. And everything breaks, don't care what brand.
Biggest thing with ANY printer/equipment purchase is service. My Mutoh was purchased from one of the top rated dealers in the nation. They are also within a half hour of my shop.
Does no good to get the "deal" only to find you need to fly someone in to fix it. And everything breaks, don't care what brand.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
Is that because of a space issue?
If space for 2 machines is not an issue, you will be better served by a printer and a separate cutter.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I believe perfectpdf has already explained many of the pros and cons of all 3 models. It would be much easier for you to go to a sign show and look at all the models in action. Remember, at a show, they will be printing their own perfectly created files for extreme appearances, so you need to find a distributor, willing to take your files and print them. ALL printers are hit and miss. Lemons slip through in every kinda business out there. There's no guarantee. We've had Rolands since around 1993 or 4. I swear by them, but then, it's more of an emotional statement. As for the money they've made for us, I can't complain one iota.
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I understand what you are saying and if it works for your business needs and you are happy that is what's most important. I was just stating the facts in an overall comparison that Mutoh hasn't actually updated their machines in what 6-8 years compounded with the print head and capping station design in the 1324/1624 ect is an absolute engineering fail out the box. I won't even go into the over engineered internal ink supply tank/bags where the valves freeze shut randomly and burn out your head or the horrible "smart card" design where after the printer gets some hours on it they start having chip reading errors. My favorite though is when they pull %100 nozzle checks but start banding out of nowhere usually between the 6mo-1.5yr mark. With all that said I would still buy a Mutoh before a latex machine though.
Hey Falcon,
You are correct, sending a print cut job is easier on a device that does both. Others recommend separate devices because it's more productive - you can output more product if two machines are doing the work. But then you have a bit more labor involved, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it's much more difficult.
PerfectPDF brings up a lot of good points (that many here may argue with.) I would recommend that you get with a Roland dealer who has been with Roland long enough to know the various machines that you're interested in. They can give you some in depth info there. I'll take a stab at it though.
TrueVis - Roland's latest model. The original VG and SG series did have problems, especially early on. Roland has worked through most of those issues and current models are pretty much trouble free as long as you take care of your printer - they are less forgiving than earlier models when it comes to regular maintenance. Roland recently came out with the VG2 which is the second generation of their 4 head/8 channel printer. The visible change on this from the original VG series is the orange ink. There are a lot of other tweaks that improve it over the original series as well. The SG is a 2 head / 4 color printer with only CMYK inkset as an option. Make sure you compare test prints from any machines that your considering before you buy. There is a reason there's a price difference here.
Soljet Pro series - See what PerfectPDF says - it's mostly spot on, but he forgot about the Pro4 XR. It uses the same DX7 head that the VS series uses - which I disagree that this is a flawed design. If maintained properly, these heads will give very long life. I have customers who get over 30 billion shots through their print heads. Again, the key is proper maintenance - (at least) weekly manual cleaning and replace cap tops and wipers at least every year. If one channel clogs, you've probably got a damper issue, not a captop issue.
Versacamm series - again PerfectPDF describes it pretty well, but I still disagree with his views on the DX7 head.
I can't state it enough, though - See actual prints and if possible watch the printer as it prints so you get a good idea of your output speeds. Take a couple of files that you know what to expect as output and ask them to be printed for you so that you can compare the same print on different machines. If you can't see them print, ask the seller what print settings and how long it took to print your samples.
Good Luck
You are correct, sending a print cut job is easier on a device that does both. Others recommend separate devices because it's more productive - you can output more product if two machines are doing the work. But then you have a bit more labor involved, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it's much more difficult.
PerfectPDF brings up a lot of good points (that many here may argue with.) I would recommend that you get with a Roland dealer who has been with Roland long enough to know the various machines that you're interested in. They can give you some in depth info there. I'll take a stab at it though.
TrueVis - Roland's latest model. The original VG and SG series did have problems, especially early on. Roland has worked through most of those issues and current models are pretty much trouble free as long as you take care of your printer - they are less forgiving than earlier models when it comes to regular maintenance. Roland recently came out with the VG2 which is the second generation of their 4 head/8 channel printer. The visible change on this from the original VG series is the orange ink. There are a lot of other tweaks that improve it over the original series as well. The SG is a 2 head / 4 color printer with only CMYK inkset as an option. Make sure you compare test prints from any machines that your considering before you buy. There is a reason there's a price difference here.
Soljet Pro series - See what PerfectPDF says - it's mostly spot on, but he forgot about the Pro4 XR. It uses the same DX7 head that the VS series uses - which I disagree that this is a flawed design. If maintained properly, these heads will give very long life. I have customers who get over 30 billion shots through their print heads. Again, the key is proper maintenance - (at least) weekly manual cleaning and replace cap tops and wipers at least every year. If one channel clogs, you've probably got a damper issue, not a captop issue.
Versacamm series - again PerfectPDF describes it pretty well, but I still disagree with his views on the DX7 head.
I can't state it enough, though - See actual prints and if possible watch the printer as it prints so you get a good idea of your output speeds. Take a couple of files that you know what to expect as output and ask them to be printed for you so that you can compare the same print on different machines. If you can't see them print, ask the seller what print settings and how long it took to print your samples.
Good Luck
It's actually not easier or harder. This is a lazy misconception people often think (no offense). When relying on a print and cut combo......... wait until your scan motor goes out and you have a stack of printed and laminated jobs on your work table you can't even cut because your all in one machine is down. I suggest getting a trial RIP like Flexi for one month it's $50 no contract. You don't need to have any machines actually connected to see how it file manages jobs. You click one button on a print and cut decal job for example in the designer and the files are automatically sent to their proper machine que. Then you just click send once you are ready to print or cut that job with a big fat SEND button. Here is a video, don't get a mental block from a 2 machine setup.
Gino is right....go to a trade show and ask a million questions. Get business cards and email their sales reps. Once it clicks with some real world interaction you will understand.
Christian @ 2CT Media
Active Member
You are sadly, uninformed. Printing and cutting are inherently easier on 2 devices. You are forgetting or not thinking about 1 step in the process, Laminating. Loading and squaring laminated rolls in combo machines add issues.
Also, you have much more accurate and powerful cutters available to you if you go a separated route. Finally, the big other issue is efficiency. I hope you don't plan to be busy as having 1 machine do all will be a big bottleneck down the line.
Solventinkjet
DIY Printer Fixing Guide
This is an important distinction. A printer/cutter usually cuts at about 20% of full speed and about 75% max pressure of a stand alone cutter. Not to mention the amount of production you lose from not being able to print and cut at the same time. If your main revenue source is print and cut stickers, two machines is better than all in one.
CanuckSigns
Active Member
OK I have owned all 3 of the machines you listed, so hopefully I can shed some light on this.
TruVis - Complete junk, we had 3 or 4 of them in the shop, roland couldn't figure out what was wrong with them, so they kept swapping them out. Eventually got our dealer to buy the printer back from us, Roland was absolutely no help throughout the whole process, if it was up to them the dealer would still be pulling PECK reports twice a week to send off while I wasted thousands or yards of material and ink.
SolJet PRO - We had one for about 4 months it worked OK, but the tech in it is very outdated, it's slow and the colours are not great.
Versacamm - We started out on one 13 years ago, it's a complete workhorse, will never let you down, the tradeoff, it's extremely slow, if speed isn't your concern and you are dead set on a roland I would go with this machine.
I am currently running an Epson S80600 with a Graphtec cutter, it blows every roland I have used out of the water in both speed and quality. I too used to think a print & cut machine was better, however once you start running jobs you realize that most of what you are printing needs to be laminated, which means it needs to come out of the machine anyway, so print & cut is useless. Also Roland print/cut is a joke, anything longer than 5 feet will start to wander and your cuts will be off
Also with 2 separate machines, I can have a big job on the printer and still have the cutter free to knock out some cut vinyl jobs.
TruVis - Complete junk, we had 3 or 4 of them in the shop, roland couldn't figure out what was wrong with them, so they kept swapping them out. Eventually got our dealer to buy the printer back from us, Roland was absolutely no help throughout the whole process, if it was up to them the dealer would still be pulling PECK reports twice a week to send off while I wasted thousands or yards of material and ink.
SolJet PRO - We had one for about 4 months it worked OK, but the tech in it is very outdated, it's slow and the colours are not great.
Versacamm - We started out on one 13 years ago, it's a complete workhorse, will never let you down, the tradeoff, it's extremely slow, if speed isn't your concern and you are dead set on a roland I would go with this machine.
I am currently running an Epson S80600 with a Graphtec cutter, it blows every roland I have used out of the water in both speed and quality. I too used to think a print & cut machine was better, however once you start running jobs you realize that most of what you are printing needs to be laminated, which means it needs to come out of the machine anyway, so print & cut is useless. Also Roland print/cut is a joke, anything longer than 5 feet will start to wander and your cuts will be off
Also with 2 separate machines, I can have a big job on the printer and still have the cutter free to knock out some cut vinyl jobs.