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Need Help Purchasing a sticker machine

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martinow

New Member
Hello everyone!

This is my first ever post on the forums, so do forgive me if I forget anything!

My current situation is that I outsource all sticker production to a company that uses a couple Epson SC-80600, laminators, and summa flatbed cutters. The quality is fantastic and I want to replicate this as much as possible. Unfortunately, that combo is quite expensive, so I am thinking of going for a print/cut with a laminator.

I have looked into the Mimaki machines (CJV159 & UCJV300) as well as Roland SG2-540, but I am having trouble picking one of the other. The Mimaki UV printer has a big advantage in that it does not have any outgassing time.

Do people have any thoughts? I currently sell about 800 square meters a year of stickers. There will be an employee working 2-3 days a week.

I'd love feedback, and if I should do anything differently!


Thanks!
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
So, let's put this into perspective.

You've been handing out a particular grade of digitally printed, cut and laminated product. Now, you want to severely cut the quality and and perhaps the turnaround and not let the end-users know you're cutting corners. How will you keep your customers happy, if you give them subpar craftsmanship at the same price ?? If you drop your prices, then you just bought a buncha equipment to lower your prices ?? Something sounds rotten in Denmark, even though you're in Norway. If ya can't duplicate, then you might wanna rethink your course of action.
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
If you are focusing solely on "stickers" and doing tens of thousands or more per month get a dedicated label press.

No way in the world a print/cut will ever keep up. A good label press will be fully automated from printing to cutting to stripping and take up. Hands off, lights out.
Rigs with the laser for contour cutting are nothing short of incredible.

Money wise..Buy once Cry once.;)
 
M

martinow

New Member
Gino said:
So, let's put this into perspective.

You've been handing out a particular grade of digitally printed, cut and laminated product. Now, you want to severely cut the quality and and perhaps the turnaround and not let the end-users know you're cutting corners. How will you keep your customers happy, if you give them subpar craftsmanship at the same price ?? If you drop your prices, then you just bought a buncha equipment to lower your prices ?? Something sounds rotten in Denmark, even though you're in Norway. If ya can't duplicate, then you might wanna rethink your course of action.
Click to expand...
Hi Gino!
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I want to do it in-house is that the delivery time goes down by half, the cost will be 1/4, and do not have to rely on an external supplier.

I might not have been clear enough in my original post, but what I am looking for here on the forum is feedback on the setup I am thinking of going with.

rjssigns. What kind of label press are we talking about? I am not familiar with this
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
martinow said:
Hi Gino!
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I want to do it in-house is that the delivery time goes down by half, the cost will be 1/4, and do not have to rely on an external supplier.

I might not have been clear enough in my original post, but what I am looking for here on the forum is feedback on the setup I am thinking of going with.

rjssigns. What kind of label press are we talking about? I am not familiar with this
Click to expand...

Lots of them on the market. Best to do a Google search to narrow the range. Then talk to a rep for the ones that fit your business model. After that go to a show(when we can do that again) and run your files.
 
E

ewded

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truvis is shit, bn20 is just as good as Epson but it's slow, and by slow I mean super slow like really really slow.
I used mimaki cjv150 for stickers it's pretty good and it has a built in cutter - download and zoom in, blue background is offset print.

bird.jpg
 
S

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Perhaps look into something like the Epson C7500 or Afinia L801 if you're only doing labels. You'd need a finisher for laminating/cutting as well, but this would be much faster than a solvet/latex/UV machine.
We're currently looking at moving our label production to a dedicated system as we're getting to the point where labour is getting a bit too intense and turnaround a bit slow.
 
BVG

BVG

New Member
SignMeUpGraphics said:
Perhaps look into something like the Epson C7500 or Afinia L801 if you're only doing labels. You'd need a finisher for laminating/cutting as well, but this would be much faster than a solvet/latex/UV machine.
We're currently looking at moving our label production to a dedicated system as we're getting to the point where labour is getting a bit too intense and turnaround a bit slow.
Click to expand...
Curious what the pricing on a setup like that with a finisher costs here, we're in the same boat. The idea of dropping another $30-40k is off-putting though when there's so many places lowballing roll labels.
 
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SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Epson is around $10k, Afinia $15k. The finisher is the killer though. Looking at more $ than either printer for something that will laminate and contour cut ... but the ability to print 3000 labels an hour is mighty attractive.
 
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ikarasu

Active Member
Have you looked at outsourcing vs buying a label printer? I have a client who uses 10,000 labels every two weeks. They want to goto a roll system so they can use a dispenser for faster application so I looked into getting a printer. 10k was cheap enough.... These don't need lamination or anything so it wasn't bad.

I asked for quotes from a few local places just to keep it going while I waited for my printer to arrive.... One guy with a press quoted me 2 cents per label printed and laminated... I couldn't even buy the pre cuts blanks for under 3 cents a label... It was crazy. (2.5 x 3.5 labels)

Digital label printers are awesome, but you can't compete with the guya who have presses unfortunately.
 
S

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Our biggest issue is that there is no consistency with label sizing across our clients (or even the same client).
An order of 10,000 labels usually consists of around 20 different designs in various quantities so digital is still the way to go for our particular client base.
 
A

Alebaba

Alebaba
I was exactly in your same position 3 years ago. Here's the right way to think about it.

- cost savings: yes, please do it yourself. It will be more work at first, but eventually once you understand the technology and the process you can actually expand your production line because you control the production process and know its capabilities.
- process: you need to print, laminate, and cut. Keep those processes separate. Do not combine the machines, will be a nightmare. Those printer/cutter machines are for small batches.
- printer: stay with eco-solvent, skip on the UV printer. UV requires too much maintenance and has more moving parts. Eco-Solvent has been around forever and technology works. Brands I recommend Mimaki and Epson. make sure you get roll to roll. You will be printing entire rolls at a time.
- laminator: any of the major brands
- cutter: graphtec or summa. I use graphtec. Make sure you get the new ones with barcode readers.
- sizes: you will only need 54 inches. All rolls come in 54 inches. I have my setup for 64 inches and have never used anything 64 inches.
- outgassing: dont worry about it. I print with an Epson S40600 and outgassing has never been an issue. I go straight to cut, or laminate and cut. Most of the time the printed roll is just sitting around for a day or two. You do not have that much volume at all, your guys coming in part time can handle that.

My setup is Epson S40600, Royal Sovereign Laminator, and Graphtec Cutter. Been running this setup for 3 years. No problems. If I had to change anything would be the Epson printer for a Mimaki. My other Mimaki in the shop has been nothing but good to me (and I purchased used!!)
 
JP123

JP123

New Member
This is my first post here, though I've been lurking for quite a while. OP... I'm a few weeks ahead of you. I just brought my printing in-house today! I've been cutting my products, but outsourcing the printed versions for about 5 years and the hassle, time, effort, stolen designs, missed deadlines... all brought me to the point where I had to make a choice, stop or buy a printer. I am not a full time designer, I have no experience printing myself and I was very apprehensive to make this move.

My products have always been printed on a Roland machine using Avery1105RS and laminated. I did not want to give up one bit of quality. I also work from a home office, so an 8ft long printer wasn't what I wanted.

After a lot of searching, reading and questions I bought a new Roland BN-20. My decals are small. My quality will remain exactly the same. My costs and turnaround time are slashed. The investment was "minimal" (only about $6k) compared to ANY other set-up.

Is it slow? Not compared to waiting for outsourced jobs
Print quality? As good as any machine
Cut Quality? Just fine
Price? See above
Material Availability? I can get any product, cut to size, from a couple of different suppliers.

IT'S TOO SMALL! If you're like me (and it sounds like you may be) then this is a great "starter" option in my opinion. If you outgrow it then you must be doing great! Then you can move up and the resale value of a used BN-20 in good condition is marginally less than a brand new one so you'll have a good chunk of cash for that new and much more expensive machine.

I have already tested and duplicated my products on the BN-20 after owning it for mere hours. PERFECT! And again, I have never printed in-house before.

Just my thoughts. I hope they help. Good Luck!!!!!! (and if everywhere you call tells you they are on backorder until April/May... I know where a few are)
 
Z

zspace

Premium Subscriber
The first thing that came to mind is get a separate plotter for cutting. The printed material has to be removed from the printer to laminate anyway. A Graphtec or Summa plotter should run under $5k and will contour and die cut your stickers while you print the next set. I don’t remember seeing the die cut option on print/cut printers.

The Affinia 801 is a speed demon for packaging labels. It will print 800 square meters in a day or two, but without a finisher it will be difficult to use anything other than precut label stock. It’s also an aqueous ink, so its not recommended for stickers used outdoors.

Good luck on your decision.
 
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ikarasu

Active Member

The bn20 is what.. 7.5 sqft an hour?

The 115 is already on the slow end and does 120 sqft an hour.

If you're busy enough that it makes more sense to bring production in house rather than outsourcing, I don't see how such a slow machine makes any sense.

Bn20 is more of a hobbyist machine like cricuts are. If that's your business model, nothing wrong with it. But I'd see the bn20 in action before dropping down almost as much as a latex or an s40 would cost.
 
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M

martinow

New Member
Thank you everyone for the helpful tips!

I will take a week and try to decide if I go for a Mimaki UV or Eco-solvent.

Thanks again!
 
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