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Replacing my HP L25500

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by JBurton, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    So I run a smaller shop, producing stuff from high rises to interior ada to digital prints/some wraps. We have spurts of demand for any given product, so at times my printer runs all night, and at other times it sits in the dark for almost a month. Recently we had a fire in the print room, that by the grace of god did not burn down the building, but it did generate enough smoke damage to all the materials and equipment to warrant an insurance claim. So now I am trying to figure out what printer will fit my needs as well as the L25500 did. The greatest advantage I found myself using out of all the pros of latex was the print/laminate same day. The simplicity of cleaning & maintaining the machine was also very nice. The biggest gripe I'd had is getting pms color matches. Currently my salesman is pointing me toward the HP 365. I'd also previously spoke to him about the HP 560, but he'd really pushed the 365.
    In any case the insurance company does not care what I do with the cash, so I am looking for suggestions on what kind of printer would be a good replacement.
     
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  2. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

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    The 560 and is just a beefy version of the 360 series that can handle larger/heavier rolls. I have two of the 570's which is the bulk ink version. It all depends on what your doing, if you think that you need something that will handle 100yd rolls or bigger go for it. But if not go for the 360 series.
     
  3. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    I am pretty sure the 300 series and the 500 series share the same version of ink, and I've read on here some people having the issue of laminates not sticking to the ink on the 365 prints. Have you had issues with your laminate, and can I ask what your primary application for your printer is?
     
  4. AKwrapguy

    AKwrapguy Active Member

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    It's all the same, ink, print heads, UI, etc. I've had a little issue with the lam on a few project but nothing that made me reprint. The issue with the lam is on mostly Avery material or high density ink coverage. We use 3M and with 8518-8520 series lams and the only issue I've really had is after plotting, when I weed sometimes (not often) the lam will separate from the material that I throw away. Usually it's because I get kinda of aggressive with it. I have yet to have it separate in the finished product.

    We use ours for everything form decals, flat signs, vehicle wraps, banners, reverse print, lighted signs, posters, perforated window graphics, etc...

    The current theory out there from what I understand is that the ink has a scratch resistance property to it and this is whats causing the issue. If the lam adhesive isn't aggressive enough or the ink isn't cured properly it exacerbates the issue of the lam not sticking. There are multiple tings that you can try is it becomes an issue such as making sure it's cured properly, decreasing the ink density, using a little heat when laminating if it's an option.
     
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  5. i replaced my 25500's last year with the 315.

    I love it.
     
  6. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Do you not miss the extra width the 25500 gave you? I had such a headache keeping my 54 and 60" materials in stock with matching laminate that I finally went with all 60" on every roll, which kindly kills me on narrow prints and smaller jobs, but when I have a need for a 5' print I'm always prepared. Also I have very few lamination issues as far as the material walking because I seldomly print all the way to the edge.

    Also I was wondering if you guys actually skip lamination, or if that's a selling gimmick. I would imagine the ink would degrade from uv exposure alone.
     
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  7. Reveal1

    Reveal1 Member

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    Good thoughts. Have been switching to 60 inch stocking also. Have gradually moved to stocking 60" and 30" 3M 40c (flat print/cut, wrap and much wallpaper) and 35c (decal, flat signage, various app to foam coro etc), and 38" / 60" banner which seems to cover roughly 75% of core item usage, balance being cast lam, fabric and various films which tend to be 54". Re: lamination, we don't lam, banners, many short-term decals, yard signs, or indoor display materials which is a big plus for the scratch resistance of the latex ink.
     
  8. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    I've been going back and forth with my sales rep, and I am currently thinking I'll run with the 560. He seems to prefer either the 570 or the 365, and since I don't print every day, or even every week, he'd recommend the 365. I'm leaning towards the 560. since it's heavier duty and somewhat faster.
    Color accuracy is one of my greater concerns. Does anybody have any experience matching pms colors with any of these printers?
     
  9. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    That's one of their failings.
    They never print the same colour twice.
    Forget trying to reprint a panel for a wrap or wallpaper if it has to match.
     
  10. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

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    The best way to match PMS colors with Latex is to use a RIP that has the ability to print output CMYK charts. Then pick one that is closest to your PMs match. Gamut wise some color you just can't match but my experience is that color profiling software does has a hard time with be able to get the most gamut out of the Latex inks. Make sure your RIP can assign to or create a PMS library with the output CMYK so you can take advantage of the maximum gamut possible.
     
  11. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Well I'm not so concerned with consistent colors, so much as color matching initially. Typing that sentence made my head hurt. Initial match to a pms color has always been a challenge, but on my l255 I was able to replace panels without much of a headache. Learned pretty quickly that dibond panels could always use some extra screws...
    I'm running onyx right now, unsure if I will be forced to upgrade to get support for the new printers. I've been using the filter manager with quite a bit of success to maintain consistent colors for individual customers, unless it's red-red... and as long as I check the sales guys artwork for color issues.
     
  12. EffectiveCause

    EffectiveCause Premium Subscriber

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    I've used the color replacement tool in onyx several times to match colors on a 360 and a 370 with no issues.
     
  13. papabud

    papabud Lone Wolf

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    i have the 360 and i can easily print the same exact colors i printed a year ago. and i do from time to time
     
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  14. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    I printed a 30 metre wallpaper job last week on a 360.
    Solid pastel colour. It was a totally different colour at the end compared to the beginning.
    Since the panels weren't printed in sequence the whole lot went in the bin it was that noticable.
     
  15. EffectiveCause

    EffectiveCause Premium Subscriber

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    Are you splitting the panels in the RIP or bringing them in already separated? You shouldn't have that problem if you split the panels in the RIP but I know, especially with Onyx, when you bring them in already separated it could RIP them at different CMYK values even though technically they are the same color.
     
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  16. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    The CMYK vales are the same.
    I know you can avoid the issue if you print them all in sequence so the gradual change isn't noticable
    but I was in a hurry & just tiled them in Oce Procut Prepress which tends to scramble the sequence.
    I saved it by splitting the tiles manually in Illustrator and printing them again in sequence.
     
  17. the only way to get good consistent even colors is making sure every head is newish or brand new. a head that has a cart through it already will never act like one that is brand new. I had heads on my 22500 that made it 6-7 carts and some that would need to be changed every 2 carts or so. never got consistent prints with it. when i would redo all the heads it preformed much better.
     
  18. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Quick question to everyone concerning color accuracy issues. Could I get info on these things:
    latex printer model:
    general consistency: good or bad
    method of color input: imported from outside program or manually checked in rip
    media brand:
    print room condition(temp): constantly cooled/heated or not
    print room condition(humidity): dehumidifier or not
    estimated monthly volume: linear/ft

    I myself have these results
    latex printer model: hp l25500, onyx 10.2
    general consistency: Good
    method of color input: Color replacements managed in Onyx preflight, all ICC profiles disabled
    media brand: 3m, Arlon
    print room condition(temp): constantly cooled, dedicated unit
    print room condition(humidity): dehumidifier constantly on
    estimated monthly volume: very low, 2,000sq/ft max

    I'm just curious if I would find consistently good/bad results with any one of these factors across the board.
     
  19. ok, um....

    like i said, it's all about the heads...

    the rest means nothing, heads. heads, and .....heads
     
  20. papabud

    papabud Lone Wolf

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    having proper good working heads is important., but true color management is much more involved in just putting in some new heads and closing your eyes.
    and by having a proper color management work flow you can keep things doing the same thing day in and day out even with worn heads
     
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