RIP/dither issue

[Saturn]

Curious if anyone has seen this sort of "ghosting" in a RIP before?

These are very small shapes, and I did play with levels a hair to get the ghosting to show up a little better (probably not visible on all monitors, before you call me nuts). There are arrows that show where the "ghosting" starts on each shape.

The printer is in perfect shape (nozzles and alignment) and I believe I have done enough troubleshooting to narrow it down to the data that the RIP is creating and not something to do with either my files or the printer hardware. It COULD be the computer I'm using, which would honestly be great news, but before I try deactivating and reinstalling things on something else I thought I would throw it out there to the world.

I am running these on a Mutoh using both LXI RIP 12 and Flexi 19. Same results. The reason I am using 19 is to be able to create my own ICC profiles, as LXi does not have this ability and the only stock profiles for my printer are VERY limited. So far my in-house profiles are superior in both color accuracy/gamut and ink usage.... just stuck with this frustrating issue...

Another reason I'm digging into this is because Flexi's go-to dither, SO Diffusion, appears to be on the way out, and Error Diffusion seems to be the next best option for quality (although certainly not speed.) SO Diffusion also gave me issues that seemed RIP related on fine, light colors and repeated images in files, but that's another ball of wax.

I thought it might be GCR related, as it looks like it's usually black dots that are the main culprit, but after trying all manner of tweaks and changes I can't seem to narrow it down further.

Happy to give more specific info where needed. ANY thoughts regarding RIP optimization or "Fonzi'ing" profiles, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks!


PS: I realize Flexi 19 is having major bug issues and a lot of people are having color issues with their Flexi 12 profiles being updated to non SO Diffusion. That doesn't seem to be the issue here and I am testing this on both 12 and 19.

 

[Saturn]

How many passes and what resolution are you using in the rip? Or rather, have you tried changing those up?

Yup, I've not only tried changing the settings of existing profiles, but created new ones with both 1440x1440 and 1440x720 using bidirectional and uni. I keep hoping to stumble on that, "Aha!" setting, but everything keeps leading me back to it being a deficiency with the way Flexi RIPs the various dithers on my machine.

I used up my 30 day trial on ONYX already, otherwise I might be able to do a little more testing between two truly different RIPs. Wouldn't have been ideal as I don't believe the trial allows profiling, and the Flexi ones wouldn't have worked in ONYX (I assume.)

 

[unclebun]

Are those supposed to be solid colored squares?

 

[Saturn]

Are those supposed to be solid colored squares?

Yes.

Believe it or not, at a viewing distance of about a foot they appear solid. I should have thrown something in for scale. Surprising how cra**y a close-up shot makes things look. The weird offset ghosting of the black dots is what I'm struggling with.

 

[unclebun]

I don't think you should be seeing huge dithering like that, uneven or not, with an inkjet printer. What resolution and passes are you using?

 

[Saturn]

I don't think you should be seeing huge dithering like that, uneven or not, with an inkjet printer. What resolution and passes are you using?

Appreciate the input! You gotta remember that this is at a viewing distance of only about 2-3" inches. Here's another image I just printed and photographed from the same distance. This is off a smartphone, but at a distance closer than my own eyes can even focus, so I would expect to be able to see some dots. Same settings as the previous simple vector shapes and colors—Mutoh's Q2 1440x1440 bidirectional settings, which I believe is in the 14-16 pass neighborhood?

Hoping someone might have more ideas about maximizing the quality of RIP'd files or ways to troubleshoot unexpected results. Particularly that bizarre offset/ghosting in the original post.

ONYX doesn't have a cloud/subscription option do they?

 

[MikePro]

the artifacts stagger between the colors, and less-so in the black..... unfamiliar with that printer, but it could be a bidirectional alignment issue?

 

[Saturn]

the artifacts stagger between the colors, and less-so in the black..... unfamiliar with that printer, but it could be a bidirectional alignment issue?

I think you're referring to the original images from the first post? If so that's a good guess.
I get similar results whether it is unidirectional or bidirectional unfortunately, and the alignment checks have never changed this issue. To be clear this isn't something that happens with all colors. Most often appears on lighter colors, and obviously most noticeable if they are solid and parked on a white background. Blacks, red, sharp as a tack—high-res photographs all print without issue.

 

[unclebun]

The thing that seems off is that the black dots are not uniform across the whole circle or square. Many of the shapes have a rim with no black dots, not to mention the unevenness across the shape. And those black dots are huge. Definitely something wrong in the way the RIP is doing things. I have never used Flexi, so I have no idea what controls there are or how it does things. What RIP comes with the Mutoh? Have you tried using that? Even if you are using canned profiles, you should not be getting results like this.

As far as I know Onyx does not have a monthly subscription program; it's a purchase and an annual subscription.

 

[Saturn]

The thing that seems off is that the black dots are not uniform across the whole circle or square. Many of the shapes have a rim with no black dots, not to mention the unevenness across the shape. And those black dots are huge. Definitely something wrong in the way the RIP is doing things. I have never used Flexi, so I have no idea what controls there are or how it does things. What RIP comes with the Mutoh? Have you tried using that? Even if you are using canned profiles, you should not be getting results like this.

You're definitely describing the situation.

The Mutoh comes with a lite version of Flexi 12 which I primarily use. This issue appears in both that and an up to date Flexi 19 using profiles created with Error Diffusion.

My main goal is to create profiles that are higher resolution and better color than what is available online—This has been achieved aside from uncovering this odd gremlin.

I'm mainly looking for ideas on things to kick or jiggle, either in my profiles and profile building, or in the actual RIP'ping of files themselves. I have used jpgs, tifs, PDFs, AIs, and EPS files in an attempt to see if was something I could control, but so far no common thread other than the dither selected, and Flexi.

 

[Saturn]

Boom. Enhanced Stochastic is my new dither of choice. Once I created a new profile using it I'm not having any issues described above. It's also the only good quality dither available in all three of the Flexi RIPs I have access to, LXi RIP 12, Flexi 12, and Flexi 19.

Thanks goes to Mark Rugen over at the Flexi Users Facebook page for specifically mentioning it.