Need Help Roll-to-Roll Lamination

[JohnDouglas]

Hey everyone!

New to the forums, really looking for some help. Our company needs to start doing roll-to-roll lamination in a 60" wide format. I've been looking at the Kala Mistral 1650 and the Seal Base 62 as options.

The question I need help with is simple: is it possible to do roll-to-roll lamination of two 60" wide materials, where there is no deviation between the alignment of the two materials?

I'm assuming the obvious answer is: Of course, just align the two materials correctly when you start the job.

What I really need to understand is if there's more that can be done on our end, to ensure a perfect alignment (aside from a precise initial line-up of the two materials).

Because the initial alignment of the materials only has one contact point, I'm envisioning that the two materials would invariably become misaligned at some point during the 75-foot roll-to-roll lamination process (if even by a couple of millimeters). If it helps, the materials are both 3M cast vinyls (1080 series, to be specific).

Do I have to re-adjust my expectations on what roll-to-roll lamination looks like, or is there a way to mitigate this small misalignment of the two materials that are being laminated together?

Also, if you have any suggestions on the right kind of machine to use, I believe we only need cold-roll functionality. Cost is not an issue, we just want to get the best machine possible.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[equippaint]

Print around 48" aligned in the center of 60" media and use 54" lam right down the middle. I dont think there is any magic answer and seems everyone struggles with it until they get whatever machine they have dialed in and even then its imperfect.

 

[Terry01]

Reel to reel is fine, just don't walk away from the job..

 

[BTB Signs]

We have two of the kala mistrals and I do believe it’s the best laminator out there. That said it’s still a little tricky. One thing to check is that the vinyl is rolled up evenly from your printer’s take up reel. If that roll is perfect you have a much better chance of making it the whole way.

 

[JohnDouglas]

Print around 48" aligned in the center of 60" media and use 54" lam right down the middle. I dont think there is any magic answer and seems everyone struggles with it until they get whatever machine they have dialed in and even then its imperfect.

Appreciate the insight. What you're saying makes perfect sense (use a narrower overlam and a wider base material). Unfortunately, we have a very specific use-case for this laminated product. It has to be two identical 60" materials. It's tough to explain why, but we basically need the same material to simply be doubled in thickness. Based on your assessment, we're probably just out of luck in that endeavor?

Reel to reel is fine, just don't walk away from the job..

Thanks for the feedback, Terry. If we're keeping an eye on the job as it's being completed and find that it's becoming misaligned, are there adjustments that we can make on-the-fly? Or would it be a matter of cutting off the sheet, then re-aligning and starting the job again? Just trying to clarify what keeping an eye on the job would accomplish. Thanks so much!

We have two of the kala mistrals and I do believe it’s the best laminator out there. That said it’s still a little tricky. One thing to check is that the vinyl is rolled up evenly from your printer’s take up reel. If that roll is perfect you have a much better chance of making it the whole way.

Gotcha. We'll probably end up going with the Kala, appreciate your suggestion. If you have any insight, why is the Seal so much more expensive than the Kala?

 

[InstantOneMedia]

If it HAS to be 60" precision and patience are your only options. Perhaps you could have your vendor slit the lam to 59 1/2"?

 

[equippaint]

Would a liquid laminator be any better?

 

[papabud]

i run a seal base 62 laminater everyday.
even with perfect set up you will never keep a perfect alignment. there are several factors that fight you.
temperature pressure tension stretching. which all shift the material ever so slightly. i have done full rolls just to watch the 2 materials shift a little this way and then a little that way and back again as it see saws back and forth while running.

 

[jfiscus]

You'll hardly ever have perfect lamination, it always walks a little bit kind of like all take-up rolls do on roll-to-roll printers. I'm not sure why you'd have to have PERFECT lamination, but most people aren't doubling up on 3M 1080 either... I would really recommend you take a look at the GFP series, we have a 563th and LOVE it. We've laminated thousands of rolls over the past few years without issues.

If a "perfect end product" is your goal and it doesn't HAVE to be exactly 60" when you're done then I recommend buying a vinyl roll slitter. We have one here and cut 1/2" -1" off of every roll of laminate before we run it; it's saved a LOT of time. In your case I would just run both 60" rolls through together as centered as possible, then cut 1" off each end afterwards. You'd then have a "perfect" 58" roll of doubled-up 1080, whatever you do with that.

 

[JohnDouglas]

You'll hardly ever have perfect lamination, it always walks a little bit kind of like all take-up rolls do on roll-to-roll printers. I'm not sure why you'd have to have PERFECT lamination, but most people aren't doubling up on 3M 1080 either... I would really recommend you take a look at the GFP series, we have a 563th and LOVE it. We've laminated thousands of rolls over the past few years without issues.

If a "perfect end product" is your goal and it doesn't HAVE to be exactly 60" when you're done then I recommend buying a vinyl roll slitter. We have one here and cut 1/2" -1" off of every roll of laminate before we run it; it's saved a LOT of time. In your case I would just run both 60" rolls through together as centered as possible, then cut 1" off each end afterwards. You'd then have a "perfect" 58" roll of doubled-up 1080, whatever you do with that.

This is exactly what we were looking for - didn't know "vinyl roll slitters" existed before this thread. Thank you so much for your help!!

 

[JohnDouglas]

If it HAS to be 60" precision and patience are your only options. Perhaps you could have your vendor slit the lam to 59 1/2"?

Thanks, bud. We're going to push forward with a roll slitter and (hopefully) see the results we're looking to achieve. Thanks again for everyone's help!!

 

[AKwrapguy]

Hey everyone!

New to the forums, really looking for some help. Our company needs to start doing roll-to-roll lamination in a 60" wide format. I've been looking at the Kala Mistral 1650 and the Seal Base 62 as options.

The question I need help with is simple: is it possible to do roll-to-roll lamination of two 60" wide materials, where there is no deviation between the alignment of the two materials?

I'm assuming the obvious answer is: Of course, just align the two materials correctly when you start the job.

What I really need to understand is if there's more that can be done on our end, to ensure a perfect alignment (aside from a precise initial line-up of the two materials).

Because the initial alignment of the materials only has one contact point, I'm envisioning that the two materials would invariably become misaligned at some point during the 75-foot roll-to-roll lamination process (if even by a couple of millimeters). If it helps, the materials are both 3M cast vinyls (1080 series, to be specific).

Do I have to re-adjust my expectations on what roll-to-roll lamination looks like, or is there a way to mitigate this small misalignment of the two materials that are being laminated together?

Also, if you have any suggestions on the right kind of machine to use, I believe we only need cold-roll functionality. Cost is not an issue, we just want to get the best machine possible.

Thanks in advance for your help!

So your looking to laminate 60" 3m 1080? Can you use a 64" lam, and just trim the excess off as it comes out? I do it all the time with 48" reflective and 54" luster lam and don't have an issue.

In theory, could you not line of the material centered onto the lam, run it and as it comes out, trim it with a guy on each side? Might be a little more labor intensive but it will get you your full 60" width.