Seeking Advice on Large Format Printers

[speck]

Hello All -

I am new to the forum. Thanks to all for some helpful reading and insight from the forums.

I own a small custom printing company which mainly focuses on offset printing, design, digital printing and direct mailing services. We currently have 9 employees and are focused on growing.

I currently outsource approximately $500 to $1500 per month for banners, posters, coroplast signs, etc. I would like to move in the direction of a versatile, large format printer that can keep many of these outsourced goods in-house.

I currently have a realestate client who is printing 500 to 700 die-cut, coroplast signs (approximately 24" x 13"). The signs are identical in size and shape but there is some variable data being printed on them which leads me to believe it is some kind of digital printing and not screen printing.

Any experience that we can leverage from you all would be much appreciated.

MH

 

[chafro]

You can:

1) keep outsorcing, no investment.
2) buy a cheap roll to roll printer(hp latex) and manually mount vinyl to coro. This printer will also let you print your poster and banners. Around 20k investment.
3) buy a flat bed printer and print direct on coro. Investment around100k

I would do number 2 and instill outsource big coro jobs.

 

[rjssigns]

At $500-$1500 a month I'd keep outsourcing. There is a lot more to running a printer that you don't hear about. Ink, materials, maintenance, breakdowns, service calls, employee training, RIPs etc...

We outsource a number of things because my sub can do it faster, on the same materials and about the same money as my input cost. This frees up time to get more jobs since I don't have to babysit the printer, repair it or finish products. There are so many things that go into an equipment purchase.

Might be time to sit down with your accountant to do a cost/benefit analysis. With those figures you can also look into a thing called opportunity cost. Either one may be an eye opener.

 

[speck]

At this point I am definitely going to invest in the equipment. My current opportunity cost is lost sales. The goal is to increase sales and it will be easier to do if we have better control of deadlines and cost.

Does anyone recommend a particular brand/model of roll to roll printer? Chafro recommended HP. Any others?

Thanks -

 

[speck]

I agree 100%.

The specific application you referred to with variable data is likely printed on a flatbed printer then either die-cut or cut on a digital flatbed cutter. Either way that's a significant investment that will cost you much more per month than you're currently subbing out. If you wanted to do jobs like that you would need to invest around $200-300k for a flatbed UV printer and flatbed cutter. The alternative, and less versatile option, would be to add screen printing and die cutting equipment to your shop. Although there is still a huge market for this method I find the digital equipment allows the best of both worlds in terms of capacity and efficiency especially when dealing with lower quantities and full color prints. Screen printing is great for high volume but is expensive for smaller runs. Same goes with die cutting - the setup is a majority of the cost.

Rj's point about discussing with your accountant is a good one. In order to justify spending $x a month on equipment, you will need to bring in $y to cover the costs and turn a profit. Based on the numbers you provided that ratio isn't sufficient and an accountant would likely draw that same conclusion.

We were in your position about 6-7 years ago and we were at the mercy of our wholesale printers. Outsourcing works well when you have reliable suppliers but can be a nightmare when they become unreliable and don't have the same idea of quality that you do. The benefit of course is that you don't carry any overhead and have minimal risk while making a decent markup on the wholesale price. You have no equipment to worry about keeping busy and maintained - if your supplier's equipment goes down it (shouldn't) affect you much provided they have a plan in place for when this happens. Worst case scenario you experience some delays in your order fulfillment.

If I was in your position I would suggest getting your net profit close to or above the sales numbers you mentioned, THEN go shopping. Try to push more products that your suppliers can produce for you and nail down specific applications that would complement the equipment you decide to work towards. I would personally work towards a UV flatbed with roll to roll option and a flatbed cutter. This combination could efficiently handle any banner, poster, decal, display work you threw at it. Of course this is assuming you want to grow to that level and have the space for it.

I would have suggested a roll to roll solvent printer and laminator but you didn't mention anything about vehicle graphics so I left that out. That is a much smaller investment, say around $50k to get set up but will not necessarily be the most efficient option for some of the items you described.

Good luck with your search.

appreciate the suggestions - I think our last two posts passed in the ether...

 

[LeLuni]

If I were in your exact situation, I would purchase:

- Moderately used HP latex printer (like a 26500)
- a big squeegee or two
- a high quality manual cutter (like a keencut or fletcher)

That puts you in the game for less than 10k.
You didn't specify how die-cut is 'die-cut' - I guess that could mean an elaborate shape, which would obviously put you way above 10k. I think corner rounding can be achieved fairly inexpensively.

 

[rjssigns]

I have the answer to: What is the best printer?

Irrespective or brand it is the one that has a smart tech and parts ALWAYS able to get to your shop within a couple hours of failure.

In lieu of that you need to have a local and ready supply of parts should the need arise and you end up doing your own repair.(trust me it will happen)

Service, service, service and parts, parts, parts. I don't care who makes what they all break.

 

[speck]

If I were in your exact situation, I would purchase:

- Moderately used HP latex printer (like a 26500)
- a big squeegee or two
- a high quality manual cutter (like a keencut or fletcher)

That puts you in the game for less than 10k.
You didn't specify how die-cut is 'die-cut' - I guess that could mean an elaborate shape, which would obviously put you way above 10k. I think corner rounding can be achieved fairly inexpensively.

Thanks LeLuni - The die-cutting is currently outsourced and is done on a letterpress and will continue to be outsourced (it is an elaborate shape). My thought is that I can print the 24" x 13 labels, die-cut the label and the coroplast at the same time with the same die. I don't have a letterpress that can handle a 24" sheet - so i will continue outsourcing that piece. However, if I can print the 500 24" labels I can at least bring that portion in-house. I'm not certain on the cost of printing 500 labels and whether or not that is going to be more cost competitive than my competition who will, most likely, be using a flatbed printer and printing directly on the coroplast. appreciate your advice.

 

[AF]

A printer is a hole in the floor you throw money into.

 

[DougWestwood]

Growing ...

Hi There,
If you are committed to growing, ie: willing to spend money to support this part of your business to eventually increase sales and turn profit, then you will need to get a roll printer, as you originally thought.

If so, then an HP latex printer is a good choice. Parts easy to get, service people available, neither needed very frequently. I have run a 28500, their 104" wide model, and once we got the profiles set up, it ran pretty much problem free. It does get hot,so make sure it is in a room with good ventilation.

Buying a used printer? Want someone else's problems? The only used printers for sale are machines that have disappointed their owners.
Get a new one, with all the warranties, you will be very glad later.

Good Luck!
- Doug
Vancouver

 

[player]

Roland 54" solvent printer/ cutter ... $20K
Laminator..................................... $ 5K
RIP Software (comes with Roland)

I guess a latex machine would be better for you because you wouldn't need drying time.

I am not sure if any other machines come with their own rip. If not, add another $5K for a rip...

 

[Gino]

Hello All -

I am new to the forum. Thanks to all for some helpful reading and insight from the forums.

I own a small custom printing company which mainly focuses on offset printing, design, digital printing and direct mailing services. We currently have 9 employees and are focused on growing.

I currently outsource approximately $500 to $1500 per month for banners, posters, coroplast signs, etc. I would like to move in the direction of a versatile, large format printer that can keep many of these outsourced goods in-house.

I currently have a realestate client who is printing 500 to 700 die-cut, coroplast signs (approximately 24" x 13"). The signs are identical in size and shape but there is some variable data being printed on them which leads me to believe it is some kind of digital printing and not screen printing.

Any experience that we can leverage from you all would be much appreciated.

MH

At this point I am definitely going to invest in the equipment. My current opportunity cost is lost sales. The goal is to increase sales and it will be easier to do if we have better control of deadlines and cost.

Does anyone recommend a particular brand/model of roll to roll printer? Chafro recommended HP. Any others?

Thanks -

Thanks LeLuni - The die-cutting is currently outsourced and is done on a letterpress and will continue to be outsourced (it is an elaborate shape). My thought is that I can print the 24" x 13 labels, die-cut the label and the coroplast at the same time with the same die. I don't have a letterpress that can handle a 24" sheet - so i will continue outsourcing that piece. However, if I can print the 500 24" labels I can at least bring that portion in-house. I'm not certain on the cost of printing 500 labels and whether or not that is going to be more cost competitive than my competition who will, most likely, be using a flatbed printer and printing directly on the coroplast. appreciate your advice.

Okay, you ask a lot of questions and are doing basically the opposite of what people are suggesting to you, which indicates, you really didn't want opinions or advice..... just a 'Go Ahead' to pull the trigger.

I'd say, just buy a flatbed and be done with it. Get a CNC to partner up with it and you'll be the cat's meow in your neck of the woods.