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Summa S2 160T Registration WAY Off.

Discussion in 'Summa' started by DecalsByDesign, Dec 24, 2018.

Should I have gotten a Graphtec?!

  1. Yes

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  2. Yes

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  1. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    Hey guys, this is my first post but I’ve gained a lot of knowledge on the forum from you guys. One of the things I’ve learned is the combo of a Summa S2 with HP Latex. I’ve been used to a Graphtec FC5100 for the past few years and it has never let me down. The S2 is a different story.

    I am trying to cut multiple contour cut files and they are off by an inch. They start perfect but within a few inches they start to squish and shrink.

    This cutter is 2 weeks old, and it was 3 weeks late on delivery thanks to Summa, I have a super sour taste for this machine.

    I have:
    Updated Firmware
    Reset to Factory Default Settings
    Calibrated Sensor
    OPOS XY
    FORCE XY
    Checked my art
    All pinch rollers on regular pressure running from 16in/sec to 40in/sec
    Uninstalled/reinstalled all drivers and programs.
    I am designing on Illustrator CC on Mac and transferring to Winplot on a PC. This is one of the biggest downfalls in my opinion of Summa vs. Graphtec for Mac Users.
    The Summa reads the first two marks and then seems like it goes searching for the 3rd one like it’s not where it’s supposed to be.


    Happening on:
    Avery 1105/1060Z
    Oracal 3640 Laminated
    Substance 21 Mil Moto




    This job needed to be done yesterday. I ended up using Axis Alignment on my FC5100 to register the front and back right corners of the Summa registration marks. The cut came out perfect with just the two marks, so I know it’s not my art. See photos for 2 of the same design but different files. Also, it’s happening on more than just this file. I really hope someone can help. I scoured trying to find the answer for 2 days while I waited for my account to activate. The finished product on the vehicle was off Graphtec WITHOUT ARMS. :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. FrankW

    FrankW Very Active Member

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    Oct 19, 2008
    Switzerland
    If the plotter searches for the third marker on a position way off to the real position of the printed mark, than there is a mismatch between the marker information in the cutting file and the printed markers.

    Do you scale the job in the RIP when printing? This would be a problem in different ways: marker sizes and distances will differ to the cutting file information, perhaps the marker distances exceeds the valid range and so on. You should design in 1:1 scale.

    Do you use Flexiprint? In this case you can update from basic to premium, which let you drive the summa directly out of Flexiprint. In this case you could scale and distort, nest or make multiple copies, Flexi will generate the correct print and matching cut file.
     
  3. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    FrankWFrankW

    RIP is Caldera, I’m on a Mac.

    No scaling in the RIP. With a tape measure, I read the exact distance between the markers that are in my file, on my print. It’s about an inch off on the 3rd marker. Once it finds it, it registers another 10 or so on that side correctly, then it goes around, and starts searching for the last box in the front left til it finds it. Then it reads the bar and distorts my cut.
     
  4. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    Marks are created with Summa’s plugin for Illustrator.
     
  5. Modern Ink Signs

    Modern Ink Signs Member

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    Jun 27, 2008
    Waukesha, WI
    We have purchased a Summa S2 T160 as well and not a problem. Quite the opposite. We have thrown roll after roll on it with no problems. Tight registration, multiple and different jobs back to back. Auto cutting between batches.


    We use Onyx and it creates the reg marks. Cutting using the Summa bar code program/app. ONYX Cut Server is set up to “automatically start cutting” when the file is created in Onyx. It creates a PLT file that the Summa program uses


    We love our cutter. I’d assume it has to be how you have things set up and the communication with the cutter.

    Where did you get your cutter from? I got mine from Grimco and their tech has been very helpful with the setup questions we had.
     
  6. Modern Ink Signs

    Modern Ink Signs Member

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    Waukesha, WI
    We have it paired with our new HP 570 as well
     
  7. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    My goal is to eliminate having to transfer to PC. I prefer not to have anything PC, never liked it since I got into Graphic Design. I will have to call Caldera and learn how to set this thing up within caldera to get rid of Macsign or Winplot all together. In my honest opinion, they’re both garbage compare to cutting master TWO, which is 2 versions from the most recent.
     
  8. nate

    nate Merchant Member

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    May 10, 2007
    Utah
    No need to wait for caldera just go on their site and get the instructions. It's very simple to add a cutter to caldera and would make sense to have caldera drive both the printing as well as the cutting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    I tried to follow calderas instructions to connect and got no where. I also tried to connect to Signcut Pro because that’s another software I’m familiar with, I couldn’t get connection there either. Those guys were stumped and are working on it on the development side.
     
  10. FrankW

    FrankW Very Active Member

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    All that are standard applications, there must be something wrong in your workflow.
     
  11. MJDallas

    MJDallas Member

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    Jun 10, 2018
    Dallas, TX
    I also have a feeling it is a software issue. My S2T160 is REALLY accurate.
     
  12. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    I hope that’s the case. When all of these started, I got perfect results on 3/10 sheets. Then on the next 3 it would cut half of the sheet out of alignment. All the exact same art file and design. Ever since it went out, it hasn’t been in line.
     
  13. Marshal

    Marshal Member

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    Mar 29, 2017
    Minnesota
    I've got an S2 T75 and rarely have issues tracking in winplot. When I do have issues, I double check that nothing was scaled between the print file, and the cut file in winplot, and I'll also double check the length calibration on the plotter for the material I'm cutting.

    That's about my only complaint about my Summa...not enough material presets!
     
  14. jerry369

    jerry369 Member

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    Nov 4, 2015
    Europe
    Are you cutting multiple copies of the same job on sheets (enabling OPOS Sheet Mode) or multiple copies on the same roll? If working on a roll do you cut the media after every job using the cut off command?
    Have you already tried enabling the OPOS Paneling Mode? If yes, with what results?
    Pressure and velocity?
     
  15. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    I have not enabled Sheet mode or paneling. 24in/s at 160g on laminated calendered.

    Im putting each job through individually, loading sheet by sheet. They track straight, they cut crooked.
     
  16. jerry369

    jerry369 Member

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    Nov 4, 2015
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    Try enabling the OPOS Paneling (4 marks) feature on the plotter before sending it the job.

    With Graphtec, what pressure and speed did you use to cut the same job correctly?
     
  17. DecalsByDesign

    DecalsByDesign ...new here!

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    Dec 23, 2018
    Eagle, CO
    I will try that. I have more of the same design that I’ve been waiting on. All while this is happening we ended up in a last minute move two weeks ago, and during Christmas of all times.

    The graphtec I was running somewhere around 25 for pressure and 30 for speed.
     
  18. K Schutt

    K Schutt New Member

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    Sep 21, 2017
    Traverse City
    We had problems with ours until we upgraded our Onyx, now it cuts great.
     
  19. jcskikus

    jcskikus Owner, Designer, Installer in the Sign Arts

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    Jun 28, 2010
    Toms River, NJ
    My problems with Summa, Mutoh and Graphtec, at times, was that it wouldn't read the registration marks due to the overhead lighting playing with the vinyl/lamination. With the Summa, I'd make 1" squares with a 1/8" square hole inside each one and place them over the registration mark with matte white vinyl. It took away the glare, and in most cases, fixed the problem. What sometimes worked on one cutter, didn't on another.
     
  20. TDFcustomSL

    TDFcustomSL Member

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    Feb 13, 2012
    Kansas
    The only time that my S2T series is ever off on the cuts, or can't read the marks on the left side of the print, has something to do with the weed border/panel size. I have not figured it out but it baffles me. Granted I am using Flexi. Upgraded from a VinylExpress that was horrible with contour cut accuracy. The Summa also cuts a little off when cutting thick material for ATV graphics. The reason for this is that I need to build an infeed and outfeed table so that the vinyl does not curve towards the floor. The thick stuff will tend to push up around the rollers unless it is allowed to stay flat as the cutter feeds it. Also, I have found that cutting too slow can also affect accuracy. It is almost like the slow moving blade pushes the material as it cuts. Hopefully you figure it out as my Summa has been fantastic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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