Turn $20 into $5000 - is it possible?

[Fitch]

Pat Whately got me thinking about "hand lettering" and the whole - new versus old, technology versus talent, argument that seems to raise it's head often. This may encompass many different forum categories, so I apologise up front.

Whilst I don't wish to (but probably will) raise a them v us thread, the point that I would like to make is about your business and profitability.

I don't work much. I wish that I worked more often, because I LOVE (probably sickly addicted to) the sign trade.

In todays sign market, many choose to or are forced to offer a full gambit of products. Business cards, T shirts, logos, digital printing, websites, etc etc etc.

Often on say a $50 "trade" price for business cards, we might sell for $75. That's a 50% markup. But $25 doesn't pay a lot of bills.

In many cases, if we take a digital scenario, where you have rent, machinery, consumables, etc etc... you get the point... how much are you really making as a percentage or $$$ at the end of the day?

In Pat's case for whatever reason, he was interested in hand painting and it just really blows me away that many in the "sign game" choose NOT to add hand painting to their skills.

Let's take a $20 can of paint - 1 litre or 1 pint - whatever. The point is what can you turn this in to?

What is your potential return?

I previously mentioned in another thread ( and before someone says "good for you"... welll "good for me") that I spent 2 hrs hand lettering a truck for $720. I guess I used maybe 6 tablespoons of enamel. There is a LOT of tablespoons before that can is empty and I have to spend another $20 for another can. The reason I got this amount was because nobody (well the majority) else could do it.

My point in raising this thread is simply this:
We are in business to make money.
We should at most endevours, try to maximise profit, minimise costs.
We should educate ourselves to progress and foster our on talents and / or abilities.

Whilst there are many "digital" folks out there that do wraps etc etc etc... expand your repetoire, challenge yourself, do what Pat is doing and see what a $20 investment can return for you, your family, your future, and to a degree your own patience and mental stability.

Whilst a $3000 job might sound great... but by the time you take out vinyl, substrate, fixings, blah blah blah... and make $500 profit for 8 hrs work.... $720 for 2 hrs might just seem a little appealing, especially when I (and those like Pat) have been fishing for 6 hrs whilst you are finishing up your so called $3000 job.

Food for thought.

I truly hope that this thread is taken in the positive and thought provoking vein it is intended.

Cheers - G

 

[signcrafters london]

My father and brother both hand-letter. We've been in this location since 1996. I bet it's been 10 years since we've had anyone ask for anything hand-lettered. No one wants to letter their vehicles; when your lease is up or you sell your van, it's almost impossible to get the paint off.

 

[Fitch]

I would DEFINATELY challenge that... those that understand the makeup of both the substrate and the paint would be able to remove, and cut back / polish without any "memory" of the sign / paint ever being there.

Might be a good opportunity to ask your father or brother to educate you somewhat, as to how they would approach removal. Chances are they - or at least your father have "been there done that". Skilled people no doubt.

That aside, the point of the post was about skill (hand lettering), and ROI - profit (cost of goods v nett return)

Cheers

 

[signcrafters london]

I understand the point of your post. My point is my customers no longer want hand-painted signs. We still paint gym floors, and an occasional walldog job, but that's about it.

And I know all about trying to get One Shot off of vehicle doors. My dad had me doing that for him from about the time I was 9. That's a major reason why I didn't get into the sign business until I was 30 instead of 18.

 

[Fitch]

Better late than never...lol

 

[David Wright]

People aren't going to ask for hand lettered most of the time but it may be what they need and you sell it that way. What is the old marketing saying, People buy drills because they need holes, and drills seem to be the best choice for that.

I have an opportunity to do a 3' by 50' hand painted lettering on two sides of a building. Very basic, two color job that will take two days and the customer will supply the lift. Around $3000.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

I wanna fish too!

 

[Flame]

I would DEFINATELY challenge that... those that understand the makeup of both the substrate and the paint would be able to remove, and cut back / polish without any "memory" of the sign / paint ever being there.

I can remove a pair of my decals and clean the door in 10 minutes. Quick peel and pop of each digital print, done.

No comparison.

Brush work can look good, is awesome to still people seeing it done, but in the modern day of advertising it doesn't hold a candle. If you can find a niche and just do that, by all means, do it because it'll be a fun way of life for you. But it has been narrowed down to just that... a niche. But something great to learn to compliment everything else you do too!

 

[CES020]

Interesting thread Fitch, thanks for posting it.

You also don't need a $30,000 printer, a $5,000 laminator, a $3000 computer, a $5000 RIP, a $2000 graphics package....and on and on...

I personally agree with you that it's something that should be considered and looked at more closely. I think so many of us fall into the "we have a hammer so everything becomes a nail" mentality. I know I fall into that all the time.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

While it is true that there is less and less demand for hand-lettering, there is still a good demand for it. Not all jobs can be done digitally or with cut vinyl and right there is the opportunity for someone with the skills (even medium level) to command a nice price and profit margin. I regularly get calls for hand-lettered work. Some of my customers want the nuance, and are willing to pay for it. I JUMP at those jobs! There is still plenty of this type of work out there. I have a friend who I consider the Master's Master who still hand letters most all of his work. He is in great demand, works part time at it, and makes a very nice income, enough for a very comfortable life style for he and his wife.
One of the advantages of being able to offer hand lettering is that some projects lend themselves well to the use of vinyls and hand-lettering combined. Greg Reid, a highly respected local Sign Artist sometimes featured in SignCraft magazine had a great article some years ago on this very subject. As far as I know, he is still regularly combining many different mediums into one project...I do, and probably always will.

Turn $20 into $5000 - is it possible? Absolutely possible....but realistically its more like $50 into $5000. Here is a real example. While its not a $750 for two hours of work, it is I think an example that makes your point.
Currently I have 5 different projects on the board that need to be hand lettered. Combined, I estimate a total of around 36 hours (including travel) to complete them and they will generate a total of $6,400 plus tax. All of the colors to be used on these projects are straight out of the can or can be mixed from a total of 8 stock can colors. Most of the colors needed will require less than a pint, some less than a 1/2 pint and one will require nearly a quart....not a lot of paint. A couple Stabilos, some chalk and charcoal, a little reducer and paint thinner, 20 ft. of butcher paper for some patterns and the use of a projector. All total, its a very small amount of expense invested.....especially if one already has these items in stock as part of normal business needs. A few days outside of the shop, away from the phone, lost in time and tranquility, a very nice profit margin...who could ask for more?

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

i know a few ppl that are living their dreams doing nothing but hand painting. one does murals, lettering on brick walls..has no office no set hours, travels the country and is currently putting two children through college and still has beer money for himself.

the other lives on a 42' sailboat travels the world and letters boats and does a few signs here and there..but primarily boat transoms and i am a very jealous man of the life he lives..because he is not only living his dream he's living mine...

 

[deegrafix]

know a few ppl that are living their dreams doing nothing but hand painting. one does murals, lettering on brick walls..has no office no set hours, travels the country and is currently putting two children through college and still has beer money for himself.

the other lives on a 42' sailboat travels the world and letters boats and does a few signs here and there..but primarily boat transoms and i am a very jealous man of the life he lives..because he is not only living his dream he's living mine...


Mine too! I watched a guy letter a truck when I was 15. He had his kit and a little chair and made $300. in under 2 hours for the cost of a few teaspoons of paint. I think I decided then and there that that was the gig for me! Later I dreamed of "retiring" and traveling the country with my sign kit. A "working" retirement, but some part time swinging the brush could make some full time money at one time.

Now I would have to drag a trailer around with the big Roland, plotters, vinyl, computers, etc. Big investments compared to 12 colors, some thinners, tape and some rags. Oh, and the skill to do it.

I'm nostalgic these days...
__________________

 

[Salmoneye]

I have an old retired sign painter (and my great friend) living right next door that would teach me for the asking. I never ask because I don't think that I have the tiniest bit of aptitude for it. My writing is like that of a three year old. It embarrasses me so that I type almost everything. Otherwise I would love to learn.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

I have an old retired sign painter (and my great friend) living right next door that would teach me for the asking. I never ask because I don't think that I have the tiniest bit of aptitude for it. My writing is like that of a three year old. It embarrasses me so that I type almost everything. Otherwise I would love to learn.

You very well may miss-judge and sell yourself short.

 

[boosted]

You can also go back to the "you are way off pal" thread. A person with a cheap cutter, decent vinyl, and some layout knowledge can knock out truck doors in less than 30 minutes for less than $75. If they work out of their house with little to no overhead, they are looking at over $60 an hour. If fast food places are paying that, we are all in the wrong business.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

If they are doing truck doors for $75 they are leaving money on the table and a WHOLE lot of it at that. I can't buy the work from home argument. The reality is that NO BUSINESS can bill for every hour of every day for every person...so he MIGHT be making $60 an hour some hours he has many hours he isn't making a dime. So WHY would you charge $75 for that pair of doors when you can charge $350 or more for that same pair? doesn't make a lick of sense to me..but what do I know

 

[signcrafters london]

Please send me a list of customers who are willing to pay $350 or more for truck doors. I've been in business 16 years in this location and have yet to find one.

 

[royster13]

350.00?......Not in my area.....There is a sign at a local truck stop advertising 60.00 (1 colour) to 100.00 (3 colours) for a set of 2 up to 6 square feet installed.....

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

the cheapest i have EVER done a pair of doors for was $150 and that was for company name in 3" helvetica and the DOT number all in black vinyl and that is the least expensive door lettering i have ever done...there are people out there commanding and getting good prices for the work they produce.

next thing you know someone's going to come in here and tell me that in their opinion vehicle lettering should be cheaper than corrugated plastic signs because you don't have to pay the 0.55-0.89 for the blank lol...

 

[Arlo Kalon 2.0]

All I can say about this is when I read all the threads about the problems people have with their $30,000 printers, I'm reminded I never had a brush break down on me. I'm seeing more and more of a market for hand painting returning and am glad I don't have to get any expensive upgrades or latest OS to cash in. Before sjm chimes in that I'm pursuing an outdated modality, let me add that I spend hours a day doing layouts on a computer. The fact remains for me personally I never enjoyed this trade as much as when I had a brush in my hand. That's the allure of it - being paid for having pure fun. What can EVER beat that? (and the fact that no monotonous weeding and taping is involved!).