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Tutorial for icc profile creation

Discussion in 'RIP Software & Color Management' started by bovegas, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Hi everybody. I was thinking with help from all of you to put tutorial for icc profile creation. Like proper way to do it since there is nothing like that on the Web. From begening to the end. I did some profiles with good success but I would like to have step by step tutorial here so we can always come here and check if we did it right. Tools I am using are x-rite i1 pro, flexisign10 color profiler, profile maker 5. So first thing to do would be monitor profile. X rite software for monitor profiling is easy. Is there anything about monitor profiling that you change when profiling or you let software to do everything. I've just red in Real world color management book that best setting for monitor would be 5000 instead of 6500. Do you choose advanced or easy setting button?
     
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  2. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Anybody?
     
  3. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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  4. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    CS-sign supply, great info. Thank you. First video explains everything about monitor profiling for printing industry so it's perfect. Now let's move to flexi sign color profiler I will be using color profiler to figure out ink limits and Profile maker 5 for actual profile creation. Is there anything that needs to be set in flexi before going to color profiler or no? Like for example in flexisign color settings? Is it now time to change input profile in color settings or that could be done later? Any input is appreciated
     
  5. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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    bovegas, please call 877-602-4237 and ask for Bobby. He should be able to get you going in the right direction with Flexi
     
  6. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Thanks CS supply, but I would like to post here how is done so everybody can see it. Maybe I can call Boby and post here aftermath. Thanks again
     
  7. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Ink Limit

    First Step In FlexiSign color profiler is ink limit. How do you guys choose which procentage is the best? My swatches looks ok at 100%, but they also look good at 70 just slightly lighter. I am not sure about this step how to pick right procentage. What is usually procentage on your printer?
     
  8. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    Hey Bo,

    What I am finding is that most stock profiles seem to be too heavy for ink and amost always worse in black.

    When I did my ink limits I tried to look at the square where you don't see much change from that one to the next. Not so much the pooling or bleed (would not want these showing on a % square you use) but more the square where there is little change in color to look at it with your naked eye. I would pick that % or back one. You may be in the 75% or 80% for some ink limits.

    I am finding it is better to use a bit lower % than the higher even when they all look good.

    Even do a test yourself with one ink limit set one way and then lower all by one or two squares and run another profile. Then do a test print with both to see what you notice.
     
  9. rubo

    rubo Member

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  10. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Sfr table hockey, thanks for reply. Now if you choose less percentage do you get good red after everything is done?
     
  11. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    I will have to read that PDF and see if it helps me any so thanks RUBO

    Now what I find is when you do the rest of the test prints and read them the I1 reads the colors you print and if they are not the right color to what it thinks they should be, the I1 will make them right by adjusting how much of each color is needed to make that red for example. As you know we don't have red in our ink, we have magenta, so already to make a bright red a profile uses all the colors.

    So to some degree, yes, if you lower your ink limit too much you will not get good color but I can't say how much of a window we have before we notice a change.

    What I can say is that I have had in the past some old waterbased ink that would make a print look washed out and not very good for color. Making a profile for that old ink did make a much better looking print and I was able to use the ink. If you could not make your own profile you would never be able to make it work.

    Reading other threads about making profiles made my head spin and I am still trying to make sense out of what happens. All I know is what I am doing now is working for both the solvent and waterbased but for solvent I have found the ink limit to be way more important for most of the medias compared to waterbased. Keeping the ink limit on the slightly lower side is working.

    Even with Roland Eco Sol inks and stock profiles, the ink was laying too heavy. Making the profile in Flexi with ink limits was way better for color and ink volume.

    I guess you should even notice your ink lasting longer with propper profiles, seeing that you are not laying too much ink down with every print job.

    This could be the next great debate. Does OEM ink really cost more if you don't need as much of it to print the same color as 3rd party inks. That could be a hard test to prove.
     
  12. rubo

    rubo Member

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    [QUOTE
    This could be the next great debate. Does OEM ink really cost more if you don't need as much of it to print the same color as 3rd party inks. That could be a hard test to prove.[/QUOTE]

    I think it's a non-issue - or maybe it is? Just curious - is price of ink a consideration when changing to 3rd party inks? I mean, c'mon, we charge $$ per sq. foot and cost of ink per sq. foot is in cents - is it really worth the hassle and aggravation to change over from OEM? I for one never used OEM inks in any of my printers - tossing them away is the first thing I do - just because OEM wouldnt do what I need to do - ie, sublimation etc...So again, why change?

    Rubo
     
  13. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    I hear you on ink cost being a very low cost item in sign making. However my first set of carts were a big $$ factor and thus I tried the 3rd party route. Also needed to buy an Eyeone but between the waterbased and the solvent ink costs in those 3rd party inks, I paid for the eyeone.

    Now, I say cost of ink is not the first question. Its how well does it print and how durable is it and does it stink. I have now gone to Rolands eco sol max inks for the solvent, thinking that profiles would no longer be needed as there were ones out there.......but sad to say, I still had to make profiles.

    The only true way to find out ink costs on your printer is to start fresh with all new carts and run a couple hundred feet of media with the same image being printed. Once done see what the carts show for ink used. Then see what the job paid and then know that ink is not a big factor in the overall cost.

    I guess my point was that when I used the profile from the other 3rd party inks,that I had made with the eyeone, to print with the new Roland inks, color was close or good enough but the ink volume was too heavy with the Roland inks. So that tells me that I did not need as much ink to print with Roland inks as I did with 3rd party. Re making a new profile for Roland inks not only printed better but may have used less ink.
     
  14. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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  15. rubo

    rubo Member

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    well, point taken...guess I'm lucky - I don't print on white media AT ALL so anytime somebody (client/customer) says PMS or color match or one of those dreadful words, I sent them away... I weeded out anybody who wants color fidelity - but have a bunch of color blind people happily coming back for more. Works for me. The only "profiling" I do is run few tests playing w ink limits and we ready to go. I mean, if you want red you'll get red, not green - it's not gonna be necessarily "your" red, but...

    Rubo
     
  16. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    Just read over that thread again for the umpteenth time.... but it clicked tonight.

    I never used the measure tool file before so I followed the steps you guys laid out but only had an old test print laying around so tried ot read that but it may have already been a reduced limit reprint. I will have to try it again in the morning with a fresh ink limit test print and see if the chroma readings are like they said. Lower on the 100% till you drop a few notches.

    Never hurts to read things 15 times. Thanks for the reference again.
     
  17. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    Chroma readings

    I have tried with measure tool but I am not sure which number is chroma reading. I was measuring black paches and the biggest number is 324. Is that the number I am looking for?
     
  18. phototec

    phototec Very Active Member

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    Can I ask which exact model of the i1 Pro you have, I was looking into one and discovered so many different models, it became confusing?

    X-Rite i1 EOBAS Basic Pro

    X-Rite i1 EOPHO Photo Pro

    X-Rite i1Publish Pro 2 EO2PUB

    X-Rite i1Basic Pro 2 EO2BAS

    X-Rite i1 EOPHUV Photo Pro UV

    :help
     
  19. bovegas

    bovegas Member

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    It is Gretag Macbeth ES-1000 uv cut
     
  20. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    Bo, this was pasted from the link above from Bly. If you read a bit more there was a bit more info on the yellow from eye4color. I never knew I had this "Measure Tool" file as part of my I1. I still have to print another ink limit test print and try to read it and see how close my other settings were that I did by eye. Can you find this Measure tool file in your eyeone?


    rfulford
    05-20-2010, 08:27 AM
    You can actually measure the chroma and lightness with your spectro but not sure if you have the ability, so you may have to do it by eye.


    This is the best way to to perform your ink restrictions. This is easy enough to accomplish with Measure tool. If you download profile maker from Xrite, it comes with Measure Tool which will run with limited functionality without the dongle.

    Open Measure Tool

    Connect to your Spectro

    Click on the spot tool and change the measurement mode to LCH.

    Read the darkest swatches of your lin target and find the patch where the chroma peaks. Where the Chroma peaks is where you set the restriction.

    Set the black channel according to L(luminance) not Chroma.

    Print a new chart with the restrictions in place and linearize
     
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