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Vinyl Lettering Coming Off

N

Newmansign

New Member
I'll try and make this story short, one of my customers, of course, this customer is one of my biggest, has about 90 plus Propane & Fuel Oil trucks. I've done numerous of them and never encountered this.

Last summer, customer bought 2 used tanker trailers (28 feet long) they were repainted. I did the lettering on one in June and one in August. It was basic black lettering down the each side and the backs of the trailers, I used 3M Calendered Vinyl. The paint was smooth, no bumps, no rivets.

I got a call from the customer that the lettering is peeling off in November 2011:omg:
I went to inspect the trailers and realized the vinyl is only peeling off ONE side of each of the trailers. The north side of one trailer and the south side of the other:omg: The opposite sides and backs are fine.

After weeks of dealing with the 3M Quality Control department and having them test the vinyl and they concluded that the vinyl is not at fault neither was my application. They can't be sure but think that maybe something in the paint is causing this.

I re-did one of the trailers a week ago and its already peeling again!!!

I am at a loss for words. I don't know why this is happening or what I should do to keep the customer happy.

Any advice would be appreciated.

:help
Karen
 
allamericantrade

allamericantrade

New Member
Monticello is quite cold. could the temperature been an issue? maybe keep the truck an extra day after lettering in the shop for the adhesives to cure?
 
R

RoCo

New Member
How soon after the tanks were painted did you apply the vinyl? The gassing out / curing of the automotive paint may have something to do with the first time around. They may have also altered the paint they used after painting one side of both tanks?

BTW, you'll NEVER get 3M to admit fault with any of their products. It's always going to come back to you and either how you handled the media or how/when it was installed, etc. Never them.
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
The one-side thing is kind of odd. Were the sides that had issues in the shade when installed? Maybe there was poor adhesion due to those sides of the tanks being colder and the sides that didn't have issues were facing the sun.

Other than that, I would think it was either poor prep or they were recently painted....but only occurring on one side makes me think prep or temperature or a combination of both.
 
N

Newmansign

New Member
Both of the trailers were cleaned down with Iso Alcohol. First time, it was summer time and temp was perfect. Second time I had them bring the one tanker to my shop, my shop is about 65-70 degrees all the time. I pulled off the vinyl, cleaned it down and let it sit for 2 days, then re-lettered it and let it sit in my shop another 2 days.

I'm pretty sure both trailers sat about a month or so after being painted before I lettered them. I spoke with the paint guy and he says they didn't do anything different.

My other concern is I have a lot of hours in labor in this job plus materials, if I try cast and that falls off, what then?? I know my customer doesn't want to pay for anything. He just wants it fixed
:help
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
My guess then would be something is getting dripped down the trailer and acting as a solvent and making the vinyl peel. What are they hauling in the trailers?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
As you already stated.... this is one your biggest customers, which reflects a nice income and repeat work, so your first goal is not to be concerned with ANY costs, fixing your problem.

I'd go to cast and hopefully be done with it. However, I would painfully remove any contamination on those trailers, even if it means washing them 5 times. Alcohol alone is not near enough... especially something which carries basically vinyl remover inside of it. A slight spill and not cleaned properly will be there for a long time.

Evidently there is no paint issues or you would've mentioned while removing the old vinyl, paint had lifted with it, so the problem remains between the vinyl back adhesive and sticking, which sounds more like a contamination problem then anything else.

You need more elbow grease.

I too, think it's application failure.
 
N

Newmansign

New Member
PSS said:
My guess then would be something is getting dripped down the trailer and acting as a solvent and making the vinyl peel. What are they hauling in the trailers?
Click to expand...


The trailers just sat in their yard and hadn't been used until November when they went to use them and noticed the vinyl peeling.:omg:

They haul Gasoline and fuel oil. These trailers are aluminum.

I've done Aluminum Fuel Oil Trucks and Steel Propane trucks for this customer and never had an issue.
 
N

Newmansign

New Member
Gino said:
As you already stated.... this is one your biggest customers, which reflects a nice income and repeat work, so your first goal is not to be concerned with ANY costs, fixing your problem.

I'd go to cast and hopefully be done with it. However, I would painfully remove any contamination on those trailers, even if it means washing them 5 times. Alcohol alone is not near enough... especially something which carries basically vinyl remover inside of it. A slight spill and not cleaned properly will be there for a long time.

Evidently there is no paint issues or you would've mentioned while removing the old vinyl, paint had lifted with it, so the problem remains between the vinyl back adhesive and sticking, which sounds more like a contamination problem then anything else.

You need more elbow grease.

I too, think it's application failure.
Click to expand...

I'll try the cast and you're right I'm hoping I'll be done with it.
What do you recommend for cleaning them?
 
Border

Border

New Member
Newmansign said:
I'll try the cast and you're right I'm hoping I'll be done with it.
What do you recommend for cleaning them?
Click to expand...

I would start with a strong solution of soapy water, like Dawn detergent. Rinse well then go to the prep solvents and finish with ISO Alcohol.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
This is gonna sound harsh, but if you know what you're doing, I'd wipe it down in sections like 4' x 4' in size with Prep-Sol and then wash it clean. After you have the entire side clean, I'd wash it again in Simple Green. After getting rid of the film left from that, I'd go over the whole truck in 91% alcohol. If this does the job and it sticks, you can then turn to your customer and tell him, they had an unusual amount of residue on the trucks and although you 'll consider letting this one slide..... you will be charging for this extra time on all future trucks so you're not out the time and money.

If the guy sees the effort you put into fixing the problem, he might go halvies with you after realizing it wasn't something you did wrong. Whichever way it turns out.... 3M or any other manufacturer won't stand behind a product which was adhered under wrongful conditions. Again, this would fall under application failure.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
Rapid Prep is cleaner for this job. Rapid Prep has one of the best degreaser ingredient around. Then clean it again with a proper cleaning agent and not use soap.
Then use CAST vinyl.
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
it sounds like there is some material costs involved other than chump change. Because of this personally I would prep one of thw sides of one of the vehicles and apply test pieces of a variety of materials until you identify what works & if the problem is eliminated versus lettering all of these without an idea of why it failed & that the chance still exists of them failing again..which will make your client more upset if it fails again & doubt your abilities, & cost you more cash..he probably will ot like the idea but if you explain the situation & create your 'tests' as useable advertising for him while testing versus random 'square' test swatches.

personally I think that is the lesser of evils all the way around until the cause of failure is identified OR you figure out a workaround.
 
lexsigns

lexsigns

New Member
calendered???? I wouldn't use this on a vehicle ever if I wanted to keep my customer and my reputation..
How long do you think they keep the vehiocles for? How long is calendared vinyl good for? I only use it on banners and temp signs.. Just my opinion
 
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