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What substrate is this?

Signed Out

New Member
Looking to make a similar style sign to the one attached. Trying to figure out the best way to do the backer with a brushed aluminum background, and 1/2" thick. Can you get gatorboard with that finish? OR would I glue a thin sheet of brushed aluminum onto gatorboard or PVC?? Thanks for any help.
 

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Signed Out

New Member
I guess acrylic would be better than gatorboard or pvc. But is there a substrate out there that already has a brushed aluminum finish?
 

ams

New Member
Everything comes in 1/4" for that, I was able to find 1/2" and 3/4" in it. It's called "Ultra-Aluminum Polished Chrome". A 4' X 8' sheet only weighs 9 pounds.
 

henryz

New Member
The backer looks like 1/4" brush aluminum but you can achieve the same look using 1/4" acrylic paint the edges or polish and apply .040 brushed aluminum wrisco. Letters can just be fco. The standoff look like stainless but aluminum look good too.
 

signbrad

New Member
We do a lot of this type of sign work. We commonly use 12mm PVC or half inch acrylic face-laminated with Brushed Silver Chemetal or a similar laminate. Use contact cement, water or solvent based for laminating.
Use a sharp fine-tooth carbide blade for cutting the panel or use the router table. Matthews "Brushed Aluminum" paint for the edges is an excellent match to Silver Chemetal.
We then flush mount PVC flat cutout letters that have been painted. Letter thicknesses range from 6mm, 12mm or thicker. For letter thicknesses greater than 1 inch, we stack the PVC.

Acrylic works fine, too, for both panel and FCO graphics, as do other substrates. There is no wrong material, in my opinion. We have experimented a lot. Even Gatorfoam brand foam board will work, too, but it is not as problem free. Edges must be carefully sealed before painting with a paint like Matthews. Also, while Gatorfoam has a good reputation for staying flat, it can curl if laminated on one side only. And, of course, a foam board is more tender, susceptible to damage. PVC seems to be an ideal substrate for interior signs like this.


PAINTING TIPS FOR PVC LETTERS


Sand the sheet before cutting out the letters. 400 grit on a DA does a thorough job with little effort. This is if you are not face-laminating, of course, but only painting the cut out lettters.

Paint the back sides of the letters first. This has two advantages. The painted backs yield a good surface for double-sided tape. But more importantly, especially on small letters, the edges get better coverage. It is often difficult to get good edge coverage on a small PVC letter, particularly in the closed counters, when only spraying from the front. The additional paint on the edges also helps cover tool marks from the router bit better.

After you have painted the backs of the letters, apply your mounting tape before turning them over to paint the fronts. This raises the letters slightly, preventing a paint build up at the base of the letters where it contacts whatever piece of material you use to hold the letters while painting (we use scrap Polymetal). When the letters are dry they do not even need to be removed from the backer. They can be conveniently transported to the installation site still attached. Also, if you mount the letters to the backer in the correct order before you paint, it is easy to spot something missing, such as a comma or dot, while loading the truck—not as easy to do if the letters are all dumped into a cardboard box. Installers even find that when they pull off the letters from the carrier piece at the job site, the tape liner often stays on the back piece, eliminating the need for picking off every piece of liner.

Brad in Kansas City
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
We do a lot of this type of sign work. We commonly use 12mm PVC or half inch acrylic face-laminated with Brushed Silver Chemetal or a similar laminate. Use contact cement, water or solvent based for laminating.
Use a sharp fine-tooth carbide blade for cutting the panel or use the router table. Matthews "Brushed Aluminum" paint for the edges is an excellent match to Silver Chemetal.
We then flush mount PVC flat cutout letters that have been painted. Letter thicknesses range from 6mm, 12mm or thicker. For letter thicknesses greater than 1 inch, we stack the PVC.

Acrylic works fine, too, for both panel and FCO graphics, as do other substrates. There is no wrong material, in my opinion. We have experimented a lot. Even Gatorfoam brand foam board will work, too, but it is not as problem free. Edges must be carefully sealed before painting with a paint like Matthews. Also, while Gatorfoam has a good reputation for staying flat, it can curl if laminated on one side only. And, of course, a foam board is more tender, susceptible to damage. PVC seems to be an ideal substrate for interior signs like this.


PAINTING TIPS FOR PVC LETTERS


Sand the sheet before cutting out the letters. 400 grit on a DA does a thorough job with little effort. This is if you are not face-laminating, of course, but only painting the cut out lettters.

Paint the back sides of the letters first. This has two advantages. The painted backs yield a good surface for double-sided tape. But more importantly, especially on small letters, the edges get better coverage. It is often difficult to get good edge coverage on a small PVC letter, particularly in the closed counters, when only spraying from the front. The additional paint on the edges also helps cover tool marks from the router bit better.

After you have painted the backs of the letters, apply your mounting tape before turning them over to paint the fronts. This raises the letters slightly, preventing a paint build up at the base of the letters where it contacts whatever piece of material you use to hold the letters while painting (we use scrap Polymetal). When the letters are dry they do not even need to be removed from the backer. They can be conveniently transported to the installation site still attached. Also, if you mount the letters to the backer in the correct order before you paint, it is easy to spot something missing, such as a comma or dot, while loading the truck—not as easy to do if the letters are all dumped into a cardboard box. Installers even find that when they pull off the letters from the carrier piece at the job site, the tape liner often stays on the back piece, eliminating the need for picking off every piece of liner.

Brad in Kansas City

Thank you for the informative and well thought out reply, Even though I already know how to make this type of sign it's great to see someone take the time to properly explain how to do this, it's a nice change from the bickering and bitching going on around here lately!

Scott
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
We do a lot of this type of sign work. We commonly use 12mm PVC or half inch acrylic face-laminated with Brushed Silver Chemetal or a similar laminate. Use contact cement, water or solvent based for laminating.
Use a sharp fine-tooth carbide blade for cutting the panel or use the router table. Matthews "Brushed Aluminum" paint for the edges is an excellent match to Silver Chemetal.
We then flush mount PVC flat cutout letters that have been painted. Letter thicknesses range from 6mm, 12mm or thicker. For letter thicknesses greater than 1 inch, we stack the PVC.

Acrylic works fine, too, for both panel and FCO graphics, as do other substrates. There is no wrong material, in my opinion. We have experimented a lot. Even Gatorfoam brand foam board will work, too, but it is not as problem free. Edges must be carefully sealed before painting with a paint like Matthews. Also, while Gatorfoam has a good reputation for staying flat, it can curl if laminated on one side only. And, of course, a foam board is more tender, susceptible to damage. PVC seems to be an ideal substrate for interior signs like this.


PAINTING TIPS FOR PVC LETTERS


Sand the sheet before cutting out the letters. 400 grit on a DA does a thorough job with little effort. This is if you are not face-laminating, of course, but only painting the cut out lettters.

Paint the back sides of the letters first. This has two advantages. The painted backs yield a good surface for double-sided tape. But more importantly, especially on small letters, the edges get better coverage. It is often difficult to get good edge coverage on a small PVC letter, particularly in the closed counters, when only spraying from the front. The additional paint on the edges also helps cover tool marks from the router bit better.

After you have painted the backs of the letters, apply your mounting tape before turning them over to paint the fronts. This raises the letters slightly, preventing a paint build up at the base of the letters where it contacts whatever piece of material you use to hold the letters while painting (we use scrap Polymetal). When the letters are dry they do not even need to be removed from the backer. They can be conveniently transported to the installation site still attached. Also, if you mount the letters to the backer in the correct order before you paint, it is easy to spot something missing, such as a comma or dot, while loading the truck—not as easy to do if the letters are all dumped into a cardboard box. Installers even find that when they pull off the letters from the carrier piece at the job site, the tape liner often stays on the back piece, eliminating the need for picking off every piece of liner.

Brad in Kansas City

Wow! Very good information!
 

Ready

Ready To Go
AMS' response about Ultra aluminum is correct. The company is called Ultraboard and the website is ultraboard.com and the product comes in gold and chrome.
Bob P
 

ADuke

New Member
Agree with Signbrad, we usually make the same type of sign with acrylic or pvc and a brushed metal laminate. You could also use an aluminum composite material such as Dibond that comes with a brushed aluminum finish. you can get it single sided or double sided with aluminum facers and a polyethylene core. You could paint the edges with a silver metallic paint so that you don't see the core and so that it "matches" the brushed aluminum finish.
 

HWPhilly

New Member
Hi, I'm looking to make a similar sign except without the PVC lettering (going to just use vinyl lettering instead). How does the 1/2" UltraBoard Aluminum do with bowing? Looking to do something like 2'x6' or 2'x8' on standoffs. I'm guessing it'd need standoffs in the center of the sign as well (6 total)? Any insight or tips? Thanks.
 

GaSouthpaw

Profane and profane accessories.
Brad's advice is spot on. I'd also suggest scuffing the back of the metal and the side of the PVC being bonded together so they have a little "extra" for the contact cement to grab to. Also, let it get tacky before sticking the sheets together- and don't try repositioning them once they're down or you'll inevitably weaken the bond by pulling up adhesive. Once they pieces were together, I'd usually cover with coroplast, then put old neon ballasts all over the place to apply weight/pressure and let sit at least 24 hours before processing/cutting (I tried to schedule my workload to do the gluing on Friday afternoons where the piece could set over the weekend).
 

signbrad

New Member
I agree that scuffing a surface helps the bond of an adhesive, just as it helps paint to stick.

I'll add that when I sand PVC for painting, I do not merely rub it by hand with a red Scotchbrite. Though I have seen others do this and get away with it, especially on an interior sign, I have also seen paint pulled off the background by a vinyl mounting pattern. So, my preference when prepping PVC for paint is 400 paper in a DA and I sand the gloss off, rendering it dead flat. If you do not have air power in your shop, there are some excellent electric DA sanders. There are also some not-so-excellent electric DA sanders. They are cheap—but do they work? I'll find out. I just bought one off Amazon.

And yes, transformers and ballasts make good weights. Some of the transformers in our shop have carrying handles made of scrap wire so you don't have to use two hands to pick them up.

Brad
 

akuarela

New Member
Hi Sign Brad,
Would you be interested in quoting us some brushed silver laminated logos and letters, interior use. The client is looking for foam, but there are some elements that are very thin.
Please pm so I can send you the files, contact info, etc.
Akuarela in Oklahoma



We do a lot of this type of sign work. We commonly use 12mm PVC or half inch acrylic face-laminated with Brushed Silver Chemetal or a similar laminate. Use contact cement, water or solvent based for laminating.
Use a sharp fine-tooth carbide blade for cutting the panel or use the router table. Matthews "Brushed Aluminum" paint for the edges is an excellent match to Silver Chemetal.
We then flush mount PVC flat cutout letters that have been painted. Letter thicknesses range from 6mm, 12mm or thicker. For letter thicknesses greater than 1 inch, we stack the PVC.

Acrylic works fine, too, for both panel and FCO graphics, as do other substrates. There is no wrong material, in my opinion. We have experimented a lot. Even Gatorfoam brand foam board will work, too, but it is not as problem free. Edges must be carefully sealed before painting with a paint like Matthews. Also, while Gatorfoam has a good reputation for staying flat, it can curl if laminated on one side only. And, of course, a foam board is more tender, susceptible to damage. PVC seems to be an ideal substrate for interior signs like this.


PAINTING TIPS FOR PVC LETTERS


Sand the sheet before cutting out the letters. 400 grit on a DA does a thorough job with little effort. This is if you are not face-laminating, of course, but only painting the cut out lettters.

Paint the back sides of the letters first. This has two advantages. The painted backs yield a good surface for double-sided tape. But more importantly, especially on small letters, the edges get better coverage. It is often difficult to get good edge coverage on a small PVC letter, particularly in the closed counters, when only spraying from the front. The additional paint on the edges also helps cover tool marks from the router bit better.

After you have painted the backs of the letters, apply your mounting tape before turning them over to paint the fronts. This raises the letters slightly, preventing a paint build up at the base of the letters where it contacts whatever piece of material you use to hold the letters while painting (we use scrap Polymetal). When the letters are dry they do not even need to be removed from the backer. They can be conveniently transported to the installation site still attached. Also, if you mount the letters to the backer in the correct order before you paint, it is easy to spot something missing, such as a comma or dot, while loading the truck—not as easy to do if the letters are all dumped into a cardboard box. Installers even find that when they pull off the letters from the carrier piece at the job site, the tape liner often stays on the back piece, eliminating the need for picking off every piece of liner.

Brad in Kansas City
Hi Sign Brad,

Would you be interested in quoting me cut out metal laminated logos and letters?
I agree that scuffing a surface helps the bond of an adhesive, just as it helps paint to stick.

I'll add that when I sand PVC for painting, I do not merely rub it by hand with a red Scotchbrite. Though I have seen others do this and get away with it, especially on an interior sign, I have also seen paint pulled off the background by a vinyl mounting pattern. So, my preference when prepping PVC for paint is 400 paper in a DA and I sand the gloss off, rendering it dead flat. If you do not have air power in your shop, there are some excellent electric DA sanders. There are also some not-so-excellent electric DA sanders. They are cheap—but do they work? I'll find out. I just bought one off Amazon.

And yes, transformers and ballasts make good weights. Some of the transformers in our shop have carrying handles made of scrap wire so you don't have to use two hands to pick them up.

Brad
 

signbrad

New Member
Hi Sign Brad,
Would you be interested in quoting us some brushed silver laminated logos and letters, interior use. The client is looking for foam, but there are some elements that are very thin.
Please pm so I can send you the files, contact info, etc.
Akuarela in Oklahoma




Hi Sign Brad,

Would you be interested in quoting me cut out metal laminated logos and letters?

Send quote request to:
sales@seemoresigns.com
Attention: Kevin.

816-523-3131
Kansas City
 
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