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Why Do Banners Get Reffered By Oz Vs Mil?

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by gabagoo, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    I find this strange that when researching retractable banner material that they are described by weight or by thickness...Is there a corelation between the 2?

    How do you convert mil(s) to Ounces? or are they 2 completely different references.
     
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  2. SignStudent

    SignStudent Member

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    Mil is thousandths of an inch, or how thick the banner is. Ounces is a measurement of weight. There's no direct conversion because it will depend on the density of the banner.
     
  3. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

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    ...so when a supplier sells me retractable banner material and says that it is 10 oz that is fine, but when they say it is 9mil I have no idea what that means as far as ounces. The reason I ask is that certain banner stands work better with a lighter weight material
     
  4. equippaint

    equippaint Member

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    See if the supplier has a weight spec. Fiberglass has a weight spec to the mat and in theory with the proper amount of resin the finished mils should correlate directly with weight. Would this be the same with banner material?
     
  5. Behrmon

    Behrmon Premium Subscriber

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    2 different materials.
     
  6. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    The ounce rating of banner material is how much a square yard of the material weighs. 10 Oz material weighs 10 ounces per square yard, likewise for 13 Oz, 18 Oz, or whatever. It has absolutely nothing to do with how thick it is or how sturdy it might be. Just how heavy it is.
     
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  7. d fleming

    d fleming Very Active Member

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    Because. That's why. Now go clean your room.:)
     
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  8. studio 440

    studio 440 Member

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    Vinyl Weight
    Ounces: For vinyl banners, the material is typically measured in ounces, based on a square yard of material. For example, our standard banner vinyl is 13 ounces, meaning a square yard weighs 13 ounces. The larger the number, the heavier the vinyl.

    Although some banner companies have a confusing array of choices, Half Price Banners has a simplified approach and uses 13-oz vinyl as its standard. Vinyl banners made with 10-oz material are perfect for all indoor applications. It also is likely to be a good choice for your outdoor banner needs.

    Depending on your local weather and prevailing wind conditions, 13-oz vinyl banners will last from three to five years.

    Mils: Vinyl will also be measured in mils, which is its thickness measured in a thousandths of an inch. Similar to ounces, larger numbers correlate to thickness. Typically, vinyl film will be measured in mils. For a retractable vinyl banner for trade shows, Half Price Banners uses 11-mil vinyl film, which is lightweight but won’t curl.

    Vinyl Density
    Denier: In addition to weight, vinyl can be measured in density. This unit of measure is called denier, and is used to measure almost any textile. The outdoor materials we use at Half Price Banners (excluding mesh), have denier of 1,000×1,000. You’ll find that this density will work well for most of outdoor applications, as it is heavy duty yet holds printing well.
     
  9. d fleming

    d fleming Very Active Member

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    I'm just warming up, about to close shop and head home to my 3.5 year old Grandson, lol.
     
  10. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    How does this help our metric brothers (& sisters)? Can they handle ounces, yards, inches & mils.........?

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
  11. Pauly

    Pauly Member

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    Time to move to the metric system. ;)
     
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  12. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Very Active Member

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    Scrim banner is essentially a coated fabric, fabric is typically measured via weight per sq yard as mentioned or based on density also as mentioned.

    Indoor "banner" film is a scrimless film so it's not a fabric, these products are typically based on thickness of film or film composite.

    These cannot be directly correlated due to the fact that one brands 13oz could be thicker than another's due to the scrim density or PVC coating thickness, but they can weigh the same. A 13oz 250x250 will be thinner than a 13oz 1000x1000 in most cases, but the 1000x1000 will be denser and more durable at the same weight.
     
  13. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Too late, the President is building a wall to keep the metric system out.
    I'm trans-measurement'al myself and can swing either way.

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
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  14. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Good, keep it out. The English system, while admittedly confusing to perhaps a moderately retarded elementary school student is functionally superior to the metric system. The English system has evolved over the millennia to be convenient for people. Not all proper and scientific, but convenient.

    Not so much for the metric system which is based on some arbitrary and meaningless wavelength of light or radiation or something or the arbitrary weight of some equally meaningless particle or whatever. Not particularly convenient for people.It might be philosophically superior but not much else.
     
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  15. Pauly

    Pauly Member

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    Imperial is defiantly not superior to metric. I can use both no problem. But metric is far more logical.
    1 Meter = 100 centimetres = 1000millimeters
    1 yard = 3 feet = 36 inches.
    That is retard if you ask me.

    Here is a graph of how superior? imperial is.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I have no idea whoever invented all these different various forms of measurement, but they're here. I like mine and I know of people who grew up with metric and think in American form. I also know Americans who think we should change to metric. Whatever floats your boat, just get the job done.
    So, how do you use a stone to measure or some of the other things in your system ??
    Just because you use it and use it well, does not mean my way in no good...... or does it ??
    Ridiculing either or method is a total waste of time. Pick one, learn it and put it to good use.

    I just hate the thought of changing all the 100 yard football fields to metric or the home run markers over to it, but then again, it would make a lotta work for around the shop. We do a lotta sports complexes. Think I'll look into this and convert the locals over. Next year, we could work on changing over the restaurant business and stop using those formulas. Think about all the lousy cakes and salty soups they'll be serving if they screw up the conversions. People will stop going out to eat and be forced to eat their own cooking. What a novel idea.
     
  17. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Oz. pound, metrics, miles whatever, I had to learn how far a furlong was years ago. So when you bet the horses you can tell if it is a long race or short one. So you won't bet some old nag with a fat jockey on a 7 furlong race.
    BTW it's an eighth of a mile. And they measure horses by hands.
    Like the lady at the cloth store when I would go with my mother as a kid, measured yards by stretching the material from her nose to the end of her outstretched arm. She was pretty accurate. Also from knuckle to knuckle on your finger should be close to an inch. (but some of you guys from dragging yours on the ground when you walk, it might not be so accurate).
     
  18. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    My cousin didn't have any arms or legs, so it was hard for him to measure without his digits........ but he made a great second base.
     
  19. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    A meter might be handy but a centimeter is too small. Humans have a hard time visualizing one part in ten and a measurement is hundreds of something might be accurate but it's functionally incomprehensible.

    The only thing you can do with the metric system is multiply and divide bu 10. Handy, you just move a zero, but you end up with a buttload of irregular fractions that must be expressed in decimal notation. Useless for.convenient measurement. Whereas a foot, a handy measurement in itself, is conveniently divided into 12 inches. This means that you can have 12ths, 6ths, quarters, thirds, and halves. Base twelve yields many more proper fractions than does base ten. An inch is equally conveniently divides by reciprocal powers of 2. 1/2, 1/4, 1/8... to whatever accuracy you might need.

    The rest of the English system might be confusing to the terminally pedantic but it's equally convenient.

    I always have found it amusing that a set of metric sockets, as politically correct as they may be, still come in 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" drive.
     
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  20. Pauly

    Pauly Member

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    You sort of get it, But let me clear some up for you.
    No one uses centimeters (cm) even though it's on our rulers. We all use Milimeters (mm) it's just easier. Cm is for "dummies" It even confuses me when people use it.
    We also don't use fractions in metric, as it's a decimal system. You'll never see a fraction with metric. For example you'll never get 150 1/2mm or 1 1/4 meters. It'll be 150.5mm and 1.25m/1250mm.

    Something are not needed to be changed like the socket sizes. It's just a standard, can look at it this way, Britain changed to the metric system, but their roads are still in miles and so are the speeds. A lot of the older guys still use the imperial system as that's what they grew up with but the standard is now metric.
    For example if the usa changed to metric, things like your football stadiums will still use yards.
    The soccer pitches originally where in yards but converted to meters, the size never actually changed.

    Some things have been converted, for example your your 4x8 ft boards, here and most of the world they're 1220x2440 sheets and its standard. not many will know what a 4x8ft is.

    I understand the imperial system, Its still used in a few things like you said, socket set and other standardised things like pipes, threads, speakers ect.
     
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