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Window Perf caused window to crack

Discussion in 'General Signmaking Topics' started by Great Signs, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. Great Signs

    Great Signs New Member

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    Just wondering if anyone out there has experienced this.
    We installed window perf on a 120" x 86" window with full coverage.
    the next day the customer contacted us saying the window was cracked.
    The crack was not there when we finished the install.

    The window also had a reflective film installed on the inside of the window.

    Any idea why this would cause the window to crack?
    we do a lot of window perf jobs on business fronts and have never experienced this.

    Canoe Hound... AKA Dennis
     
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  2. ChicagoGraphics

    ChicagoGraphics Major Contributor

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    I doubt the perf. caused it, maybe somone through something at it.
     
  3. showcase 66

    showcase 66 Very Active Member

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    Was the glass laminated or plate glass. Either way, it shouldnt have cracked from the perf. If it had a small crack in the frame, it would have cracked during the installation.

    Have you actually seen the window yet? It may have been hit by a rock and they dont want to file a claim instead just blame you.
     
  4. CS-SignSupply-TT

    CS-SignSupply-TT Very Active Member

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    I seriously doubt the PERF "CRACKED" the window. Since somebody's insurance company is going to pay a claim, how about contacting your friendly neighborhood commercial window dealer (preferably the owner) and asking him to take a look.
     
  5. anotherdog

    anotherdog Very Active Member

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    Unless you used heat, you did nothing to the glass but clean it.

    It is possible the process shifted the glass in its frame slightly and tipped an already stressed pane to crack, but frames twist over time and glass cracks. This is just a random happening that they will want you to pay for. Of course the customer wants to find someone to blame and doesn't want to pay for a second install.

    Did you go back later that night with a brick?
     
  6. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Sometimes you can see a crack from one side better than the other.

    In other words, when full light hit it, it was too bright to see and your people were on the outside and could not see the faint crack. Now that the light is reflecting differently, it might be much easier to see from the inside. Could've been there for weeks, months or years, but no one ever noticed it before.

    Just tell him you won't charge him any additional costs for keeping his window from falling out, but if he wants to replace the window, he'll have to pay you the same amount over again, with a small discount in therefor good measure...... for being a good customer.
     
  7. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Perhaps the vinyl coating set up some sort of bizarre thermal condition. That would seem the only way that vinyl might break glass.

    It certainly couldn't be any sort of mechanical action. Vinyl and its adhesive simply isn't strong enough. In any test of mechanical strength vinyl will give long before glass does.
     
  8. Great Signs

    Great Signs New Member

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    The glass is a plate glass window. I really don't think that anyone through something at it.
    I am thinking maybe the heat from the sun had something to do with it causing the glass to expand. I am really puzzled on this one.
     
  9. is the glass double pane? if so what happens is that the argon gas inside the glass expands because the window will now hold more heat. this is something we are all to fimiliar with we do commercial window tinting and will NOT tint any thing double pane for this reason. hope this helps
     
  10. Great Signs

    Great Signs New Member

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    actually on inspection after the install from both inside and outside, there was definitley no crack in the glass. I can vouch for that. when I returned the next day to inspect the window crack it was half way across the window. now it has completed its journey and finished the rest of the way.
     
  11. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    Well, then you better prepare yourself to replace that window, since you can't prove it was alright when you left, other than a verbal. Did you take a picture from both inside and out ?? That's about the only way you can prove you didn't do it, otherwise, you were the last person working on it and without a reasonable explanation, you're gonna pay.
     
  12. anotherdog

    anotherdog Very Active Member

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    They better prepare to replace that window because they cannot prove you did it. There has to be proof of an action. It was good when they started, broken when they left, or the perf caused the break by doing something.

    If it wasn't broken when you left and all the professionals on this site can't come up with a reason why perf would do that, I think they would have a hard time chasing you for the repair...

    of course you have lost either way because they will never use you again.
     
  13. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    Does the window get direct sun?

    What sort of graphic is printed, lots of dark or black area?

    Any chance that with the reflective on the inside and window perf having a black backing created a lot more heat inside the panes due to the refecting back onto the black side of the perf?
     
  14. oldgoatroper

    oldgoatroper Roper of Goats. Old ones.

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    Is there direct sunlight on the window?

    Does the graphic printed on the perf have distinct dark and light areas?

    If so, that is probably your culprit.

    Years ago, in Calgary, I heard that a Safeway store with south-facing windows had someone put large (3 or 4-foot) red vinyl letters across the storefront. The next morning, even though it was mid winter, all these windows either cracked or shattered. At first they thought someone was shooting at the store, but then someone noticed it was only the windows with vinyl on them.

    Uneven thermal expansion that is just fast enough to stress the glass to breaking point.
     
  15. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    Great minds think alike..... sorry you are linked with mine.
     
  16. oldgoatroper

    oldgoatroper Roper of Goats. Old ones.

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    Why, yes, I believe this must be true. However, as others so often remind me, I am tempered by the thought that "fools seldom differ... "



    :Big Laugh
     
  17. AUTO-FX

    AUTO-FX Very Active Member

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    This.
    Exactly.
    I was warned by my rep at a window tint mfg about scenarios like this.
     
  18. Gino

    Gino Major Contributor

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    This could very well be the culprit, but we've done many windows without one problem. Most of them are southern exposures. We just did 6 last week and ran out of perf and Bigfish got us the backup material in time to do the last two.

    We did three about three weeks ago, again a Southern exposure. No problem.

    I can understand full color regular digital printed vinyl, but this stuff is meant for glass and says so in the books. I can understand someone putting pure solid color vinyl up and creating these problems, but perf..... that's hard to swallow.
     
  19. sfr table hockey

    sfr table hockey Very Active Member

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    This is the part that I thought may be more the cause than the outer image of the perf. Just the thought of the reflecting film, doing what it is supposed to do, reflect the sun back out and then the perf having black as the backing color absorb that heat.

    Just noticed last week that a bank in town had their windows covered in perf and they also have a reflective film (I think inside). Only difference is they face North so not much direct sun, but then also there must be a reason for the reflective material in the first place. Wondered about letting them know what could happen but then again who ever put it up may have covered that already. If nothing else they may want to remove the inside reflective film.
     
  20. oldgoatroper

    oldgoatroper Roper of Goats. Old ones.

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    Gino, my guess is that conditions need to be just right to induce rapid uneven heating of the glass.

    In the case in Calgary, I believe it was the Safeway on 17th Ave, which in the winter is in the shadow of surrounding buildings till mid moring. Then, with a stronger sun suddenly warming cold glass, but only where the vinyl was stuck, the glass heats fast enough that the heat can't migrate to the surrounding cooler glass fast enough to relieve the uneven expansion stress.

    I think timing is one the the critical factors in getting glass to stress enough to crack or shatter, but temperature differential (between the warm and cooler areas of the glass) is another. The more the temp. differential, the greater the difference in expansion -- thus the greater the stress.

    Just some more thoughts...
     
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