• I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...

Working procedure requirements

scurcio

New Member
Recently, our newly appointed supervisor decided to make strange demands of the employees in our sign shop. We think he is going a bit too far in his requirements, but I'd like to get an opinion to see if those demands are in fact way out in left field.

He has made several rounds through the shop and noticed the employees sitting to weed vinyl. He feels it is unproductive, so he has told the manager to remove all the desks and chairs from the shop. No one will be sitting to weed any longer.

One employee has a bad back and cannot stand for more than an hour. He has been put on sick leave until the supervisor decides what to do with him.

There are other smaller issues with this supervisor, but the deal with the chairs and desks seems a bit overboard.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
That does seem a bit excessive, I don't care if you sit, stand or hang from the ceiling, as long as you get the job done.

That being said, a shop I used to work at was experiencing some growing pains and the boss kept coming up with silly rules like this that he thought would make up for his inability to meet customer deadlines. the shop closed down about 6 months later.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I would say that it is a bit excessive. When I do vinyl for shirts I sit and I think I'm pretty productive at getting it done (but then again, I have a different motivation as well) and weeding is by far my least favorite thing to do.
 

signswi

New Member
Sounds like someone who doesn't know how to manage and just fell into it. Those types like to make pointless proclamations and rules just to show they're doing something as deep down they're really insecure. Could always call OSHA to dictate how the workstations are set up...
 

genericname

New Member
I used to see this kind of behaviour all the time. It's pretty prevalent among supervisory staff, unfortunately. Most think they can bend a workforce into their mode of thinking or style of work, but the truth is that a supervisor that can't be flexible with his staff will end up breaking something. That could be himself, or the business, but something always breaks.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
We have chairs, stools and other devices all over the shop and we move them around as needed..... except in the computer room. They're for putting your butt into while working. However, the sitting device better fit the work you are doing at the time.

Here's how I see it.​

I don't see how, if you are weeding quite a bit of vinyl for any length of time you could sit and do the job effectively ?? You'd have to be getting up and move around constantly and that would annoy me, also. Seems like a lot of wasted time and effort and what some people consider 'Milking' the job.... or your time.

If you are weeding a small side of a truck door, it's not going to take more than a few minutes, so why would you need to sit ??

If you are working at a computer, sending files to a station to be cut or any time sensitive job, where it's mundane endless work, I can see sitting as being needed.

Without seeing what's going on and knowing how long and how difficult this tired employee's job really is.... I kinda agree with your supervisor. One thing though, I would not remove the chairs.... I would just tell the people involved.... NO more sitting for this type of work.
 

Billct2

Active Member
I also feel that most weeding should be done standing, unless it is a small block of PITA text. I know I weed a lot faster being able to move around a bit. How about a timed trial
demonstration.
 

genericname

New Member
There's no question that larger weeding needs to be done standing, while able to move around, but removing the chairs and desks? That reeks to me of someone who read a couple management-based self help books, written by some ultra-powerful CEO douche, without understanding his own workspace, or place.
 

WYLDGFI

Merchant Member
As an employer, and the fact that my guys are always on their feet...no ability to sit out back with what we do anyway....I offered to them to pay for High quality shoe insoles....2x per year.
 

cdiesel

New Member
I have a good friend who is a consultant (hired contractor) for major manufacturing and production companies. He's basically hired to come in and be the bad guy, whipping the company into shape. He's been responsible for double digit increases in gross and net profit in less than six months at multiple companies. He does this by streamlining inventory (both inbound and outbound) and making labor more efficient. He said one of the first things he does EVERY time he walks into a shop is gets rid of chairs that are not necessary. It pisses off a lot of people, but the ones that are pissed about it are the lazy ones anyways.

It's terribly inefficient to be in and out of a chair all day, and like Gino said, I don't see how you could efficiently weed any amount of vinyl. We have NO chairs in our production areas, and all of our work tables are 42" high for ease of reach while standing. Some of our shorter employees don't like the height, but for the rest of us it's great.
 

cdiesel

New Member
Think about it.. 90% of what we do requires running around like a madman. How can you do that efficiently if you're sitting in a chair?

ETA: And no, we don't supply platforms... The girls are free to bring their own if they want!

They actually adapt very well. Our tables are built with shelves on the bottom, and the shorter people just standon the bottom of the table to reach something in the middle.
 

FS-Keith

New Member
Like other have said, unless you are working on a small nightmare of a piece there is no reason for sitting in a sign shop.(outside of the offices and design room)


Good point. Unfortunately I seem to be the only one that runs around like a madman around here.

:beingtheowner:
 
I have a good friend who is a consultant (hired contractor) for major manufacturing and production companies. He's basically hired to come in and be the bad guy, whipping the company into shape. He's been responsible for double digit increases in gross and net profit in less than six months at multiple companies. He does this by streamlining inventory (both inbound and outbound) and making labor more efficient. He said one of the first things he does EVERY time he walks into a shop is gets rid of chairs that are not necessary. It pisses off a lot of people, but the ones that are pissed about it are the lazy ones anyways.

It's terribly inefficient to be in and out of a chair all day, and like Gino said, I don't see how you could efficiently weed any amount of vinyl. We have NO chairs in our production areas, and all of our work tables are 42" high for ease of reach while standing. Some of our shorter employees don't like the height, but for the rest of us it's great.

as one of those 'bad guy' it is something that I notice often. I make my observations, report them to in house senior management or owners and discuss benefits or change as well as potential problems/consequences of change, and before implementation we have a 'heart to heart' with staff before changes are implemented.

it depends on many factors if this is an issue or not. if this is a HIGH volume, HiGH production shop it could definitely be a valid concern.

if this is not a production based, high volume production facility the savings could be so minimal that it just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. for example if an employees could do this task while sitting in 15 mins but while standing it only took 13.5 mins (and the company truly has enough work to keep employees on task every moment of working day that would be a savings of 48 minutes per day per employee (4 hrs per week / 200+hrs per year) per employee...so the little improvements of time can add up quickly, especially in a larger operation mulitplied by many employees.

in my experience in the industry it is a rare shop that can not only sell enough work to keep employees on task every working moment of every working day but also stage the work in that manner as well. it is very rare that employees work on one task their entire day (such as weeding) versus bouncing from one task to another to complete the work at hand and stay busy.

if a busy production shop has 10 people working on repetitious production tasks the savings can be substantial. But if we are talking about a small shop that employees are bouncing from one task to another the loss of moral can quickly outweigh any theoretical savings, unhappy uncomfortable employees are going to produce less than employees who believe an employer cares about their comfort, well being and is not trying to squeeze them for every bit of productivity they are capable of (even if that is the goal) we are dealing with people, with feelings/emotions/individual needs not machinery and there is great value in making your staff feel valuable, safe, etc. if they are invested in the success of the company they will produce effectively in most cases.

in my experience there are many issues to explore to increase productivity prior to changing processes that are already in place (as long as they are producing on a somewhat satisfactory level and are generally accepted industry practices, sometimes things are so flawed change needs to be made immediately).
 

cdiesel

New Member
I think part of the issue is "taking" things away. Like Dan said, it creates a morale problem. While most employees will never think like an owner, we try very hard to get as close as we can to that goal. The employees who would be bothered by things such as taking away chairs would most likely be the least likely to think like an owner.

We try very hard to create an environment where all of our employees feel comfortable and valued, and we try to cultivate a team mentality.
 

slipperyfrog

New Member
Give me one of those rubber standing mats and I'll go all day weeding without a problem. I can't stand sitting to weed anyway, it feels too restrictive.
 

earplug

New Member
One employee has a bad back and cannot stand for more than an hour. He has been put on sick leave until the supervisor decides what to do with him.

This one may be able to file an Americans with Disabilities Act claim. The ADA requires Employers to make "reasonable accommodations" for those with disabilities. I would think a chair would be "reasonable".
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
No, he should be at a desk job.... not doing something that will cause him pain.
 
Sitting down to weed is lazy and slow...Been weeding and getting on lazy/large people sitting down to weed 10+ years...T shirt vinyl and crazy detailed stuff is the only acceptable time to sit.
Why do you have a production guy who isn't nimble?
I thought that was a job requirement to be running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
Yep...we took it one step further and removed the seat from the toilet. Cold procelain is a very productive timesaver. (Just kidding...but I know a guy who might)

Actually, I'd take a "wait and see" approach and be honest with the employees that it's a trial basis, and whichever method seems to be the most productive wins.

I worked for a tyrant who removed chairs in a maufacturing plant (that were in fact needed) , and also banned calendars and personal photos from the office area. Dishes were not allowed to be rinsed in the break room sink, and the trash was emptied just about every hour. Yep....OCD to the max.


JB
 
Last edited:
lol James, I was involved in the review of the overall operation of a LARGE sign company over 100 employees and one of them huffed and puffed about the questionaire everyone was asked to complete and then an interview took place just to get employee's ideas on how to increase productivity, improve the working environment etc.

during this interview he bragged that he made it a point to take 2, twenty minute breaks to take a number 2 if he needed to go or not every day..he even stated that if he didn't need to go it gave him time to catch up on his reading...this guy had been with the company for over 15 years .. his manager started crunching numbers and conservatively figured they had paid this individual for over 3,000 hours to sit on the toilet...
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I know it's a written law that a full time employee gets two breaks a day.... one in the morning and one in the afternoon, but I don't know what the time allotment really is. Our people get two 15 minute breaks a day with 1/2 hour for lunch. It's not written that the employees MUST take the 15 minutes, but we strongly encourage it.
 
Top